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disappointed in R15M Speakers


bugman53

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Not yet, I bought a pair of infinity for the garage and I am defiantly keeping those, I am planning on taking the klipschs back but I am just playing with them because they are intriguing to me. I have until after Christmas to return them. Heck as cheap as they were if I see where a new crossover and some mods would help them I might mod them and use them in my gun room or something. I have not decided yet.

 

I also figured it might help someone out to get some data on them and such or anyone that was just interested in them.

 

PS. My wife is home on bed rest due to pregnecy and its also an excuse to get out of the house, she hates loud noise so it keeps her away...LOL

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  • 1 year later...

I was also disappointed with the frequency response. So I opened the back terminals unit and checked the crossover circuit electrical frequency response. What I found explains what the problem is. the crossover point is at 1800 Hz as specified BUT at that frequency both the bass and the twitter levels are at -11dB instead of -6dB.

The crossover schematic is shown in the attached file. The inductors values are not marked.

The only way that I could fix it without replacing the whole circuit, was by adding a 10uf  (2x22uF back to back connected) capacitor in parallel to the 3.6uF. This change shifted the crossover level to -7 dB but the crossover frequency moved to 1350 Hz.

Listening to the speakers now is so much better that I will keep this modification, unless the Klipsch company will see this post and provide a replacement crossover units.

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  • 8 months later...

Having been in the professional side of audio and video for over 40 years I keep seeing manufacturers raising the crossover so they can claim more power handling capabilities.

I've considered this speaker because it uses a compression driver but the crossover is too high, 18K.   if it were lower you wouldn't get that piezo sound and might benefit from better midrange. Though, It might have to incorporate a HF driver to help the high end.  I hope to audition this speaker over the weekend but my guess is it will sound as you described.  it also doesn't state the type of crossover or the slope which also contributes to the sound.  too bad they don't offer a biamp version.

Just my take.

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5 hours ago, 93KHJ said:

Having been in the professional side of audio and video for over 40 years I keep seeing manufacturers raising the crossover so they can claim more power handling capabilities.

I've considered this speaker because it uses a compression driver but the crossover is too high, 18K.   if it were lower you wouldn't get that piezo sound and might benefit from better midrange. Though, It might have to incorporate a HF driver to help the high end.  I hope to audition this speaker over the weekend but my guess is it will sound as you described.  it also doesn't state the type of crossover or the slope which also contributes to the sound.  too bad they don't offer a biamp version.

Just my take.

First off welcome to the forum. Second off this speaker nor does any other in this line use a compression driver. They use aluminum tweeters. Only current REAL reference speakers that use a compression driver is the RC-64ii and RF-7ii

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5 hours ago, 93KHJ said:

I've considered this speaker because it uses a compression driver but the crossover is too high, 18K.   if it were lower you wouldn't get that piezo sound and might benefit from better midrange.

Most manufactures will cross the Hi driver in this range or higher.  To get a much lower XO, you will need to move to a larger speaker or shoot for a 3 way design.  Welcome to the forum.

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I have a pair also that I got on black friday last year, using them for side surrounds.   They seem fine in that capacity.

With that said, you can pick up a pair of RB51s, the Reference version from the past, at around that same cost.

 

If you can move your R15Ms, you can replace them with something with a better crossover.   I have a pair in my basement theater as back surrounds.  

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11 hours ago, 93KHJ said:

Thanks for the info guys.  guess I misread the specs, assumed it was a compression driver.

Guess I'm asking a lot from the small design.  biamp able would be nice though.

To be honest the money it costs to properly bi-amp something I'm not sure why your looking at such a low budget speaker. Where are you located at? Maybe we can find you something used that would be a much better speaker. 

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On 10/14/2016 at 4:57 PM, 93KHJ said:

Having been in the professional side of audio and video for over 40 years I keep seeing manufacturers raising the crossover so they can claim more power handling capabilities.

 

it also doesn't state the type of crossover or the slope which also contributes to the sound. 

 

too bad they don't offer a biamp version.

Just my take.

 

You are an audio professional for 40 years, you know what crossover points are to the point you complain about them with regards to power handling.  You are sophisticated enough to question the crossover slope of low end $125 computer speakers, and TWICE you mention it's a problem they don't offer a biamp version??

 

Are you wanting forum members to explain to an audio professional of 40 years what bi-amping means?

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On 11/29/2014 at 6:24 AM, Scrappydue said:

Maybe he has something at his house that he can eq with but doesn't want it out in his garage?

And maybe all 4-5 star reviewers have never heard better speakers. Lots of people don't know any better. I thought the rc-64 was the best center channel ever. Till I heard better. It's all in perspective.

Warning! Incoming Thread Jack

 

Huh? I've been salivating over upgrading my RC62 to an RC64II. Maybe its not the upgrade I think it will be? What do you prefer?

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The 64 II is a great center speaker, not sure what he's referring to as to what he heard that was better unless its a full sized tower speaker. I personally prefer the RC-7 over the 64 II simply because of bass response but the 64 II is loud and extremely clear and detailed. Now, I can see where any of these dedicated center speakers could fall short in a larger room as they can only do so much.

 

As to whether the 64 II would be an upgrade over the 62 I've never heard the 62 personally but have had several of the RC-3's and RC-35's which were the predecessors to the 62 and while they are ok in smallish rooms they really can't hold a candle to the larger centers.

 

If you buy right you can try out the new center speaker and if it doesn't meet your expectations you could always resell it and break even or take a small hit but I cannot foresee you not liking it  but it may turn into one of those situations where the improvement may not be justifiable to the cost unless you just want the best you can have for your situation.

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8 hours ago, frankhenrylee said:

Warning! Incoming Thread Jack

 

Huh? I've been salivating over upgrading my RC62 to an RC64II. Maybe its not the upgrade I think it will be? What do you prefer?

From klipsch home offerings the only thing better is the palladium center. Not gonna match anything but the palladium stuff. So probably not a likely match for you. 

 

I don't bring this this up much cause people seem to get offensive or tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. And I guess that's fine in all reality. The RC-64 isn't a bad center I just don't feel it's a huge upgrade over the 62. I feel the 62 will do 95% of what the 64 will. And to pay almost triple for that 5% well that's up to the individual. Now the 64 is one of the best horizontal centers klipsch makes. So there's that. 

 

@derrickdj1 what would be the shortcomings on three towers behind a screen vs two towers and a center below a screen? 

 

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For a dedicated HT with three towers behind the screen, it is a good senario.  Everyone is not running that type of setup.  For those using a TV stand or console, the 64 is perfect.  Now, an all tower system using towers for surround or surround back speakers, the ideal height of the speaker in relationship to the main listening position may not be optimal.  They also take up floor space and wire management  may be needed. 

 

For the most part, it is not about which speaker is better but, what fits and works with the intended application.  Also, with the appropiate use of subwoofers, smaller speakers can be used in the HT and achieve just as nice SQ and dynamics.

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/16/2016 at 9:50 AM, rybn said:

I was also disappointed with the frequency response. So I opened the back terminals unit and checked the crossover circuit electrical frequency response. What I found explains what the problem is. the crossover point is at 1800 Hz as specified BUT at that frequency both the bass and the twitter levels are at -11dB instead of -6dB.

The crossover schematic is shown in the attached file. The inductors values are not marked.

The only way that I could fix it without replacing the whole circuit, was by adding a 10uf  (2x22uF back to back connected) capacitor in parallel to the 3.6uF. This change shifted the crossover level to -7 dB but the crossover frequency moved to 1350 Hz.

Listening to the speakers now is so much better that I will keep this modification, unless the Klipsch company will see this post and provide a replacement crossover units.

Thanks for this! I love messing with inexpensive audio components and purchased a pair of KB-15 speakers for $99.00 on sale. They replaced a set of JBL Studio 40's ($53.00 on sale) on my main computer, but the result sounded odd and was definitely lacking lower frequencies. Amazon just happened to have the Polk PSW10 sub on sale for $89.00 at this time and it was added to my system a couple days later. The sub took care of my low freq problem, but it also exacerbated the odd sound which was now an obvious error in the crossover slope as I couldn't get the sub rolloff correct. Using my Google Foo, I immediately went to task in finding any crossover mods that may be out there, hoping to save precious time over building one from scratch. The above post by RYBN was the only thing I found after scouring the web for a couple hours, and thinking the lower end Klipsch bookshelves use many of the same parts, I decided to try the 10uF cap trick. I dug up a couple 100V, axial electrolytes and soldered them in parallel to the 3.6uF cap. The result was phenomenal! The speakers are now balanced to the point that I was able to get the sub right where it needed to be in less than 5 seconds. At that moment the KB-15's and PSW10 disappeared, replaced by a rather wide and somewhat accurate soundstage! I'm in love with this setup now, and quite amazed at what can be done for very little cash. I will continue to tweak this setup until I get bored and start all over again with a new batch of inexpensive components. If anyone is interested, I have these connected to a Behringer UCA222 DAC, SainSmart 6n3 tube preamp kit outfitted with NOS GE JAN-5670 tubes, and a Sound Appeal SA-100T T amplifier, all purchased from Amazon. The entire system from DAC to speakers was right around $350.00, but sounds like I spent a fortune!

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  • 1 month later...

I also find the R-15M speakers with poor treble response, so I decided to understand/learn about its crossover circuit.

The crossover is of course passve and working with LC circuits in both drivers. It is a second order crossover, which is the best relation between loss and frequency response. It works at 1800Hz.

On the tweeter section, you´ll find out that it´s a RLC filter (it has a resistor) and placed to prevent tweeter damage and balance the sound.

According to my measurements, frequencies higher than 6KHz are slopping down the plot.

Technically the tweeter has much higher sensitivity than the woofer, so that is why there is a resistor to balance the sound (which is not working properly),

The solution is simple, but we don´t want to mess-up with the crossover frequency, which will unbalance soundstage (unless you design a new crossover i.e. 2400KHz).

Finally, just replace the 7.5ohm/10w resistor with a 1ohm/2W resistor and you´ll be amazed immediatlly with the real sound of these speakers.

Give it a try on one speaker and compare both channels working and same time.

You won´t regret for sure! :)

 

Happy new year!

Miguel

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