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derrickdj1

Cheap fix on Ground Loop

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Hard to believe how many folks around here are alarmists....I still like to see one documented situation where a consumer using stereo equipment with all but one device grounded via the wall was killed or even injured in anyway...seems like you could find some real proof of this extreme danger...

You are looking for something that is very specific, on a subject that isn't officially documented. I've already shown you how a computer case shocked someone but that wasn't good enough.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

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http://web.mit.edu/~jhawk/tmp/p/EST016_Ground_Loops_handout.pdf

"NEVER, EVER use devices such as 3 to 2-prong ac plug adapters, a.k.a. "ground lifters," to solve a noise problem!"

"In a typical year, consumer audio and video equipment electrocutes 10 people and causes some 2,000 residential fires which result in 100 civilian injuries, 20 deaths, and over $30 million in property losses. [6] [7]"


sources:
[6] Hiser, S., 1997 Electrocutions Associated with the Use of Consumer Products, United States Consumer Products
Safety Commission, 2000, www.cpsc.gov
[7] Mah, J. et al, 1997 Residential Fire Loss Estimates, United States Consumer Products Safety Commission, 2000,
www.cpsc.gov


http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Search/?query=Electrocutions%20Associated%20with%20the%20Use%20of%20Consumer%20Products&filters=all

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

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http://web.mit.edu/~jhawk/tmp/p/EST016_Ground_Loops_handout.pdf

"NEVER, EVER use devices such as 3 to 2-prong ac plug adapters, a.k.a. "ground lifters," to solve a noise problem!"

"In a typical year, consumer audio and video equipment electrocutes 10 people and causes some 2,000 residential fires which result in 100 civilian injuries, 20 deaths, and over $30 million in property losses. [6] [7]"

sources:

[6] Hiser, S., 1997 Electrocutions Associated with the Use of Consumer Products, United States Consumer Products

Safety Commission, 2000, www.cpsc.gov

[7] Mah, J. et al, 1997 Residential Fire Loss Estimates, United States Consumer Products Safety Commission, 2000,

www.cpsc.gov

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Search/?query=Electrocutions%20Associated%20with%20the%20Use%20of%20Consumer%20Products&filters=all

I saw nowhere the documents say that the causes were related to defeated grounds.

Edited by eth2

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I saw nowhere the documents say that the causes were related to defeated grounds.

 

From post 123:

 

"You are looking for something that is very specific, on a subject that isn't officially documented. "

I don't think you will find this outside of somebody posting how dumb they were on a forum.

Like, this guy. Dude is getting shocked by a computer and audio equipment. His apartment doesn't have grounded receptacles so he basically has a two-prong power strip and nothing is grounded. He gets shocked sometimes when touching the cases.

http://ask.metafilter.com/10053/How-can-I-ground-my-computer-and-audio-setup

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

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"In a typical year 20 people die from fires that were related to audio/video equipment"

Again: EVERY DAY IN THIS COUNTRY 90 PEOPLE DIE IN CAR WRECKS!!!!!!!

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A local audio guy I'm email pen pals with just tried a cheap ground loop isolator. He claims it killed the bass response. I had never heard of this before, I knew there was loss but thought everything was linear. Apparently some of the better ones jack the frequency up from 20 kHz to 300 kHz before it hits the transformer to compensate for this.

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Hard to believe how many folks around here are alarmists....I still like to see one documented situation where a consumer using stereo equipment with all but one device grounded via the wall was killed or even injured in anyway...seems like you could find some real proof of this extreme danger...

Craig,

 Whoa, that was a leap. To be clear at least as far as any posts I have made I am not saying every piece of gear needs an "earth ground". I am saying if it has one, it is there for a reason and should not be defeated on a permanent basis.

                                                        Eric

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I know a few Ham operators, in efforts to reduce RFI (radio frequency interference) and ground loops, they have power circuits in their house that have their own panel, which nothing else is plugged into but their radio equipment. They take great care to ensure there is only 1 path to ground. The cheaper way to do it is to run your gear off a battery bank system.

 

i guess i'm fortunate. my listening room is built as part of my detached garage and was formerly a HAM room with its own panel as you describe. i've never had any ground loop issues, though I also keep my equipment chain to a minimum.

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Hard to believe how many folks around here are alarmists....I still like to see one documented situation where a consumer using stereo equipment with all but one device grounded via the wall was killed or even injured in anyway...seems like you could find some real proof of this extreme danger...

You are looking for something that is very specific, on a subject that isn't officially documented. I've already shown you how a computer case shocked someone but that wasn't good enough.

No it is not good enough....in fact it's not even remotely the same situation.

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No it is not good enough....in fact it's not even remotely the same situation.

Yeah I know, not specific enough. It now has to be a stack of multiple audio units in which somebody broke ground, not by continuing to use the 3-prong plug and using a ground lift on XLR cables which is common and acceptable, but by bypassing the ground with a cheater plug and hoping the RCA cables grounds the unit through something else that is in fact grounded, and you want to know who exactly got shocked with such a setup, with proof that their choice of wiring was the cause. Regardless of my belief that your query didn't start out like that... good luck finding proof of such a thing even if it has happened at some point. It's a ridiculous endeavor.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

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You are correct you won't find it....because it's never happened..

Edited by NOSValves

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I tryed your suggestion with the Ground loop isolator. That didn't work. It just made the hum even worse.

Any suggestions?

Martin Pedersen

Denmark

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Hi Martin, sorry to hear that the ground loop problem is still there.  A couple of questions, have you identified the poblem amps, cab.e box, ect. in the system?  How many outles for the HT and do you use a power console like Monster?  Is the isolator connected to the sub out of the avr to the sub/s?  Do you use a power amp which can also be a problem?

 

Finding where to use the isolator may be the problem.

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I tryed mounting the isolator at the receiver and sub.

I don't use a power console. The hum i still there when cable is in sub but not in receiver but goes away when in receiver and not in the sub.

I only have one sub on my system.

Martin Pedersen

Denmark

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Have you tried a different cable?  It may have a bad shield and picking up interference.  I don't see how it would be a ground loop if it does it with the cable in the sub and not plugged into the receiver.

Edited by CECAA850
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Have you tried a different cable? It may have a bad shield and picking up interference. I don't see how it would be a ground loop if it does it with the cable in the sub and not plugged into the receiver.

 

Great suggestion.  That may be why the isolator is not helping.  It may also be worth trying a cheap Y adaptor in the R/L sub input.  This will lessen the chance of RF(radio frequency) and EM(electromagnetic) interference because the other channel is open and active.  How true this is, I don't know.  I have only read about it, YYMV.

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How true this is, I don't know. I have only read about it, YYMV.

 

Makes perfect sense.

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