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Stereo Receiver vs Integrated Amp vs AVR for RF-82


sreeram5mvn

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Hi Folks,

 

I have a pair of Klisch RF-82 which I bought few weeks ago and Denon X2000 for driving them. But It seems the sound is too bright for my ears and I am looking at returning the Denon and Buying a Marantz SR5008 or SR5009 as few folks suggested that Marantz warms down the Klipsch a bit and the overall sound will be good.

 

I have tried everything with Denon with the help of some folks and it still sounds bright to me, So I am done with it and will be returning it. Please do not blame the speakers as I have listened to them several times at variable locations and they sounded warm and full but do not remember what were they paired with. One was at my frnds place with 2.0 setup 82's with Yamaha Rx-v475 , even though yamaha is branded to be too bright with Klipsch it sounded warm and full bashing that rumour.

 

But going through different forums I am not able to decide whether to go with an AVR or Integrated Amp or Stereo Receiver Or Separates(Xpa 200 for sure and some budget receiver with pre out).

 

It gets more complex as i read the forums. To make it easy let me specify details

 

Set Up: Strictly 2.0 atleast for few years

 

Inputs: Any input wired or wireless. Apple airplay is hardly preferred but if I have to compromise on sound quality then I am ok without airplay. I do not use tv. Main input sources will be my Macbook, Iphone and Ipad for movies and music.

 

Desired Sound: Warm and Full

 

Room: 14X14X12

 

Budget: $600

 

(is separates the Emotiva XPA 200 is around $300 and I will be left with $300 for pre amp or some budget avr with main zone preout)

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For 2 channel listening, go find a good stereo receiver, integrated amp, or separates. I have yet to find an AVR that can compare to a decent stereo dedicated system. I recently purchased a used Harman Kardon 3270 simply because it was so cheap, I use it for music alongside my H/k AVR 3600 for movies, which is no slouch as AVR's go, but the difference is truly noticeable. Your $600 budget can get you a truly decent set-up on the used market..

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I think you seek the Yamaha R-N500, a super retro cool receiver (plenty of juice, phono pre, tuner, tone controls, even their rather useful variable loudness control) with the modern touches of an on board DAC and networking (it does Airplay).  

 

This Yamaha network receiver might not be a bad choice at all.  I am loving my Yamaha integrated with my RB-75's very much.

 

or maybe this Onkyo.

 

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktx8050/onkyo-tx-8050-2-channel-network-stereo-receiver/1.html

 

I am using the Integra version of this TX-8050 to drive a pair of Heresy II's and could not be more pleased with the sound quality and features.  Very neutral tone, great punchy bass, and very detailed.

 

Bill

Edited by willland
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For 2 channel listening, go find a good stereo receiver, integrated amp, or separates. I have yet to find an AVR that can compare to a decent stereo dedicated system. I recently purchased a used Harman Kardon 3270 simply because it was so cheap, I use it for music alongside my H/k AVR 3600 for movies, which is no slouch as AVR's go, but the difference is truly noticeable. Your $600 budget can get you a truly decent set-up on the used market..

Is it true that even if AVR's are rated like 100 watts/ch they give out only 30 or 40 watts and for stereo or integrated Amp if the rating is 100 watts/ch they output 100 Watts. I have read this in few threads.

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You are not going to get a different sound with any receiver from listening on a bed that is a foot or so off the ground. Your other posts are giving the same responses.

 

If you look at your own posts and the responses to them,everyone is offering the same advice.

 

You either need to move the speakers to the side walls facing your ears, or get a chair or something else to sit in to bring your ear height closer to the height of the speakers tweeters,as that's where most of the voice is going to be coming from, and it will always sound bright or tinnny. Go to your friends house and listen to them there in the same manner you listen to yours now and you will see they sound similar. You also stated in your other posts you only have miniblinds and no curtains or wall treatments,so you are going to continue having a tinny sound.Try to get some curtains for the windows,or get some wall treatments (can make yourself),and consider getting a set of bookshelf speakers and bringing them down to your level until you get other furniture for the 82's.

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You are not going to get a different sound with any receiver from listening on a bed that is a foot or so off the ground. Your other posts are giving the same responses.

 

If you look at your own posts and the responses to them,everyone is offering the same advice.

 

You either need to move the speakers to the side walls facing your ears, or get a chair or something else to sit in to bring your ear height closer to the height of the speakers tweeters,as that's where most of the voice is going to be coming from, and it will always sound bright or tinnny. Go to your friends house and listen to them there in the same manner you listen to yours now and you will see they sound similar. You also stated in your other posts you only have miniblinds and no curtains or wall treatments,so you are going to continue having a tinny sound.Try to get some curtains for the windows,or get some wall treatments (can make yourself),and consider getting a set of bookshelf speakers and bringing them down to your level until you get other furniture for the 82's.

I figured out that I will using this room as audio room and shifted out my mattress to the other room. I had a recliner in the living room which i dragged into this room for testing purposes and made sure I am sitting at level with the tweeters and set up the audessey. It sounded much more different than before and there was a significant improvement, but there is still a kind of shrill or brightness in the sound.

 

I know i did not mention this in the other thread as I was confused on what i would buy next if i am returning the Denon X2000. I know the Denon X2000 is a good one and should sound good but as it being a refurbished one may be there is something wrong with it in the internal circuitry or something which may not be a concern to the shop. I can exchange it for another Denon but usually my thinking is like once I am unsatisfied with any product I do not tend towards it again even a new one is offered, it is just that feeling in my head that even the new one may sound the same and I have to go through the return process again. Instead of that I am asking people around who have experience in listening to different setups, that what kind of set up would be needed to bring down the shrill or brightness of the RF82's and also make them sound full. I figured out some of the setups

 

Option 1: Marantz NR1403 with Main Zone Preout and Emotiva XPA-200 or Emotiva UPA-200 (something around $600 for avr and amp)

 

Option 2: Marantz SR5008 or Marantz SR5009 or Marantz SR6008

 

Option 3: Any Stereo receiver with 100 W/Ch rating(Not sure the stereo receivers give out the watts they specify)

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I agree w/ Jim.  Your problem seems to concern the basic character of the speaker, or room acoustic issues, or some combo of both.  Changing to a stereo receiver or going with more powerful amps is not the solution to such problems (still like that R-N500 though).  I think you need to mess with speaker placement, decor/treatment of the room, and finish it off with some eq if necessary.

 

Is the main listening position directly on axis with the tweets?  If so, alter toe in of the speakers so that it's not.  You may consider trying more toe in than is customary; that will eliminate first reflections from proximal walls and delay those from more distant walls, helping tame the live room (and give a very wide, stable sonic image as a bonus).  

Edited by Ski Bum
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Some of the shrill can be toned down from the treble side of the receiver. How are the speakers set up in the room? Are they toed in or just facing the back walls? Are you setting the receiver up as a 2 channel set up or surround?That is going to make a difference with sound field.

 

For future reference,usually a receiver of any brand that is refurbished is sent back to the company and fixed,then put back out for sale,but even having said that can have issues afterwards. That was one of the biggest reasons I stated that issue with Onkyo,even after they fix their HDMI Boards they blow again.

 

Try your friends Yamaha with the seating set up in the room and see how that sounds, as I stated, you can get an RX-A1**0 Series and they come with 110 watts per channel @8ohms.If the 473 sounded good,then the RX-A should sound better as they have better internal amps and components.The Marantz SR5 Series is going to have 90 watts and similar build to the Denon as they are the same company . The 6 series would be the better option as it is a step above the 5 series,and 1 below the top of the line set up for the 7.2 set up.You'll also get more wattage.

 

A good rule of thumb would be wattage ratings are never accurate,but should be in the range of 70-80% of stated value on good receivers.

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Big difference in avrs and the other two. Do it all does nothing as good as dedicated in the sound quality department . Get a Harman Stereo Receiver and you'll see. Or if Outlaw still has its stereo receiver its also great. Or as mentioned go used a few years back and get fantastic sound for cheap. Im talkin thousands of dollars savings if you spend $500, and you will be impressed. Ever since digital audio music has taken a hit. I love digital, easy, network, mass storage but that's the way it is...There are a few that can still belt out some pretty sweet sound but but its stereo, separates, or integrated unless you buy a $2K or so avr and even then........All this is for critical listening, for just good all around sound any mentioned will do fine.

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Desired Sound: Warm and Full

 

Room: 14X14X12

Do you have hardwood floors? They make anything sound harsh without decent treatment. At least get a nice thick area rug if so. You can get ultra smooth silk dome tweet and go from carpet to hardwood and it is instantly awful. I've done it.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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I agree if ya got hard floors you need rugs, curtains, soft furniture. That said I have 22 x 24 hard floor but with the fore mentioned, vaulted ceilings. My friend and member here with almost the same set up (when I had 7s and Emotiva set) wonders why his perfect dimension room with 8ft ceilings and carpet just don't sound as good, and  I don't know.

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Some of the shrill can be toned down from the treble side of the receiver. How are the speakers set up in the room? Are they toed in or just facing the back walls? Are you setting the receiver up as a 2 channel set up or surround?That is going to make a difference with sound field.

 

For future reference,usually a receiver of any brand that is refurbished is sent back to the company and fixed,then put back out for sale,but even having said that can have issues afterwards. That was one of the biggest reasons I stated that issue with Onkyo,even after they fix their HDMI Boards they blow again.

 

Try your friends Yamaha with the seating set up in the room and see how that sounds, as I stated, you can get an RX-A1**0 Series and they come with 110 watts per channel @8ohms.If the 473 sounded good,then the RX-A should sound better as they have better internal amps and components.The Marantz SR5 Series is going to have 90 watts and similar build to the Denon as they are the same company . The 6 series would be the better option as it is a step above the 5 series,and 1 below the top of the line set up for the 7.2 set up.You'll also get more wattage.

 

A good rule of thumb would be wattage ratings are never accurate,but should be in the range of 70-80% of stated value on good receivers.

Just been home for lunch and I have tweaked some treble settings a little bit and it sounds good now and also figured out that FLAC is less harsh than the MP3. I will try my frnds Yamaha once he gets in town tomorrow. he has been been out of town for whole week and is cmin back tomm. Thanks for the help.

 

And one more thing, can i connect the Denon X2000(if I am keeping it) to an External amp for a 2.0 setup??. It has only Zone 2 preouts so can i use Zone 2 with Amp with my 2.0 instead of main zone

 

 

Desired Sound: Warm and Full

 

Room: 14X14X12

Do you have hardwood floors? They make anything sound harsh without decent treatment. At least get a nice thick area rug if so. You can get ultra smooth silk dome tweet and go from carpet to hardwood and it is instantly awful. I've done it.

 

 

 

I agree if ya got hard floors you need rugs, curtains, soft furniture. That said I have 22 x 24 hard floor but with the fore mentioned, vaulted ceilings. My friend and member here with almost the same set up (when I had 7s and Emotiva set) wonders why his perfect dimension room with 8ft ceilings and carpet just don't sound as good, and  I don't know.

Carpeted floors.

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Is it true that even if AVR's are rated like 100 watts/ch they give out only 30 or 40 watts and for stereo or integrated Amp if the rating is 100 watts/ch they output 100 Watts. I have read this in few threads.

 

Most AVR's are spec'd at 2-channels driven so when an AVR is rated at 100w/channel it will output 100w per speaker but only in stereo and that may be only at a certain frequency and not the full(20Hz to 20kHz) range.  With "all channels driven", that 100w/ch receiver "may" yield you 50w/channel with 7 speakers driven.

 

Bill

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And one more thing, can i connect the Denon X2000(if I am keeping it) to an External amp for a 2.0 setup??. It has only Zone 2 preouts so can i use Zone 2 with Amp with my 2.0 instead of main zone

 

 

I don't think your model can do an external amp ( but would have to check it online) for the main zone, you would have to do it with a "high input/out put" amp where you took the L/R Speaker wiring and run it to the high input on the external amp, and then run the out wires from the amp to the speakers.

 

One other thing you might look at is what you are listening to when doing the mic. TV,Radio,Net will all have different sounds when listening to them, so take that into consideration. I usually do my mic based on what I listen to mostly and go from there. Cable, Pandora, Internet Radio all sound different.

Edited by Jim
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For 2 channel listening, go find a good stereo receiver, integrated amp, or separates. I have yet to find an AVR that can compare to a decent stereo dedicated system. I recently purchased a used Harman Kardon 3270 simply because it was so cheap, I use it for music alongside my H/k AVR 3600 for movies, which is no slouch as AVR's go, but the difference is truly noticeable. Your $600 budget can get you a truly decent set-up on the used market..

70's Sansui are warm and fuzzy.  9090 and 9090DB.

70's Marantz that I've found I like are 2270, 2285B, and 2325.

To be sure there are others that sound good, but these are ones I've listened to, and would recommend.  Unless you want to get into Tube gear.  Then I'm not much help, but the tube gear I've listened to I have enjoyed.  Nothin like setting in a dark room and having the music dancing back and forth as you stare at the light from the tubes to relax me.

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Desired Sound: Warm and Full

 

Room: 14X14X12

 

Budget: $600

 

 

I'll be honest, I don't think there is going to be any difference in Solid State AVRs and/or Amp with your speakers being driven in Direct Mode. I agree that a tube amp should/could be warmer--That said, outside of what you heard at your buddy's house I've never heard of the RF-82IIs being described as a "warm" speaker--In fact, you don't hear that about any Klipsch speaker....Just sayin'.

Edited by tkdamerica
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I think you seek the Yamaha R-N500, a super retro cool receiver (plenty of juice, phono pre, tuner, tone controls, even their rather useful variable loudness control) with the modern touches of an on board DAC and networking (it does Airplay).  

 

This Yamaha network receiver might not be a bad choice at all.  I am loving my Yamaha integrated with my RB-75's very much.

 

or maybe this Onkyo.

 

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktx8050/onkyo-tx-8050-2-channel-network-stereo-receiver/1.html

 

I am using the Integra version of this TX-8050 to drive a pair of Heresy II's and could not be more pleased with the sound quality and features.  Very neutral tone, great punchy bass, and very detailed.

 

Bill

 

 

 

I am using Onkyo TX-8050 with my RF42II.

If you go that route, I suggest that you use it in Pure Audio mode. This is by far the best mode in my experience with any source that I put into my receiver. However I am not sure if the result will be the "warm and full" audio experience with RF speakers. Try if possible before buying the receiver. I agree with willand that the sound is detailed.

Edited by parlophone1
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