Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 9, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 9, 2015 By the way I have been using tractrix ports for about 5 years now. We did an internal white paper that showed the advantages of the profile. No need for a yellow button here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 9, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 9, 2015 A little modesty and a little humbleness goes a long way..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I may be way off but, seeing the round port makes me thing 2010-2011 Icon W, and the other I con's with flower shaped horns. I thought they had an excellent sound. Maybe a lesson was taken from that design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 9, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 9, 2015 Ummm. No. But a little defensive aren't we. Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 9, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 9, 2015 I was referring to the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I have the feeling a lot of work has gone into the ref pre.Its gonna be great to hear these speakers. I got a good feeling about em. If there is something special about em I may get a pair myself. If they're not for me I wont, but I'm not gonna judge the sound based on a discussion. I would think most interested members would do the same, with an open mind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Awesome to see the Klipsch Engineers here. I have to laugh, it reminds me of this classic scene. Please come visit the forum more often and if you are in Vegas this week, I hope you are enjoying our town. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveWJr Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Ummm. No. But a little defensive aren't we. Lol! Oh that wasn't accusatory; I was just confused since there was no quote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 OH Yeah like that's gonna fly, what moron is responsible for doing this?. If you can't figure this one out don't ask. Best regards Moray James.Did we really just go back to middle school name calling? And he wonders why we are reluctant to answer his legitimate questions. (yet still try to do when we can) Also, Thanks Jay and Andy for the additional insight. Jay's right guys, there are some things we just CAN'T give away, but when/if we can, we'd love to help people understand the methods behind the madness. Chad it is moronic! You can see where the wall mount for the speaker is and what result there would be on the performance of the loudspeaker were one to utilize such a mount. Good god I am glad you guys are not designing cars. You need to grow some thicker skin. I am aware of the benefits of flared ports and there have been a number of studies into shape. If the flair is important for air flow at one end of the duct then it is also just as important at the other end of the duct. But you could save some coin because nobody is going to look inside so it amounts to a show. There is method there is madness and there is BS and I am seeing a fair bit of gold spin hype or BS. This is all getting to be too much if you include anymore trade secrets into your loudspeakers you won't be able to sell them to anybody. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I have the feeling a lot of work has gone into the ref pre.Its gonna be great to hear these speakers. I got a good feeling about em. If there is something special about em I may get a pair myself. If they're not for me I wont, but I'm not gonna judge the sound based on a discussion. I would think most interested members would do the same, with an open mind. I got a flyer in the mail today telling me that Future Shop had the new Klipsch RP280. A friend and I grabbed a couple of CD's and drove the local Future Shop for a look and a listen. No one there knew what we were talking about but a quick check on the computer showed them in the system but not in stock. So another day perhaps in a couple of weeks or so and I will check them out when they are in stock. I expect that they are a very good upgrade to the previous models. I don't doubt that the people at Klipsch have made a very serious effort to build a better speaker. I just don't like spin and I don't like BS and I know it when I see it and I smell it. I don't like the carnival you have created here but I do like Klipsch. Ownership changes values change and products change. I am open but I am not seeing the kind of things I want to see. That's my problem and I will deal with it as a consumer the same way that everybody else does. I do have a bias that I would like to have come true and that is that I will like what I will hear in the RP280 when I do hear it. I will come back here and tell you if I do or if I don't. Best regards Moray James. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) By the way I have been using tractrix ports for about 5 years now. We did an internal white paper that showed the advantages of the profile. No need for a yellow button here. Just curious -- what sorts of advantages are we talking about here? More significant that the types of changes that Dave discussed in post #942? Edited January 9, 2015 by Schwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted January 9, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted January 9, 2015 I got a flyer in the mail today telling me that Future Shop had the new Klipsch RP280. A friend and I grabbed a couple of CD's and drove the local Future Shop for a look and a listen...I am open but I am not seeing the kind of things I want to see. That's my problem and I will deal with it as a consumer the same way that everybody else does. I do have a bias that I would like to have come true and that is that I will like what I will hear in the RP280 when I do hear it. I will come back here and tell you if I do or if I don't. Fair enough....I'm glad to hear you are willing to go check them out for yourself. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts after hearing and seeing them first hand. If you then think they suck, that's fine. If you say they look cheap, you can then wear a huge BS button proudly. Just having some fun with ya Moray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Chad Posted January 9, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 9, 2015 OH Yeah like that's gonna fly, what moron is responsible for doing this?. If you can't figure this one out don't ask. Best regards Moray James.Did we really just go back to middle school name calling? And he wonders why we are reluctant to answer his legitimate questions. (yet still try to do when we can) Chad it is moronic! You can see where the wall mount for the speaker is and what result there would be on the performance of the loudspeaker were one to utilize such a mount. Good god I am glad you guys are not designing cars. You need to grow some thicker skin. I am aware of the benefits of flared ports and there have been a number of studies into shape. If the flair is important for air flow at one end of the duct then it is also just as important at the other end of the duct. But you could save some coin because nobody is going to look inside so it amounts to a show. There is method there is madness and there is BS and I am seeing a fair bit of gold spin hype or BS. This is all getting to be too much if you include anymore trade secrets into your loudspeakers you won't be able to sell them to anybody. Best regards Moray James. Moray, all due respect, there is a distinct difference in calling an idea "moronic", and calling a person a moron. Now, if I didn't work here, I probably wouldn't give a damn about you or anyone calling someone who works at Klipsch a moron, but I would still think it was childish. What if it was someone you have openly said you respected many times (and 100% rightfully so) like Roy who made that decision? I'm NOT implying he had anything to do with it, because quite frankly I don't know who was involved with any particular design decisions - but my point is would you still call Roy a moron? This is not about thick skin or marketing "spin", it's about defending my coworkers. Yeah, I don't agree with every decision made here or any other place I've worked, and why should I? But that doesn't mean I think the people I work with and respect are moronic at all. All that aside, I'm glad you are going to give the RP-280 a chance, and I look forward to hearing your opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) What you need to realize is that transducer design specifically is almost always a "greater than sum of parts" sort of deal. You reduce some flux modulation here with "x" feature, not a huge deal. You optimize the coil winding using "y" geometry, not a huge deal. You improve the former by using "z" material to lower damping, also not a huge deal. You introduce a larger diameter magnet, again...not a huge deal. This continues until the net result is a driver with so many slightly improved features, that the net performance is improved and improved measurably so. I will give you an example. Let's say a woofer's magnet is increased by 5mm in height. You are asking for curves proving this change's worth . In reality it was done to allow for more excursion, as the coil length on the woofer had been increased, so the linear suspension travel was increased to take advantage of it. The net result was a driver capable of deeper extension, but it now needs more mechanical clearance, hence, thicker magnet. That single 5mm change in itself isn't what created the overall superior driver. Hope this helps. Actually, what you revealed here in part is what those not intimately familiar with your design cannot see. To go even further with this observation, it might have worked a lot better for this type of information that you revealed, quoted above, to have been provided in the press build-up than what we all see in the videos and glossy advertisements. But the problem is, and this is something that I'm pretty sure that you're not allowed to acknowledge--that wasn't your call. But answering consumers' questions here is apparently in-bounds. What I've come to realize is that companies are made up of design engineers, accountants, marketing staff, manufacturing, etc., and senior management. I believe that we all know where the issues arise, like we see in this near-1000-count thread. And you can't push a rope. PWK was the chief engineer and top management - and there is where a major difference exists. I believe that Mr. James reflects on that difference, in all fairness, and is vocal here because he cares about the organization (Klipsch) and where it is going. I don't believe that is a bad thing at all, but rather the real strength of the company--beyond balance sheets and egos--is a committed following. So it seems odd that someone would take issue with Mr. James, but not with the "window shopping" mentality of judging loudspeaker designs based on "looks" and "product image", and there are many of those folks here. So in the final analysis, I don't believe that any of this, the forum and its threads, really matters that much since, IMHE, senior management will do what their collective egos decide to do--and that is determined by individual managers summed into a collective behavior, I might add. But it's always worked that way--from at least 1946 to the present. The difference, I've found, is the seniority of technical expertise within that senior management hierarchy. I, for one, enjoy seeing the Klipsch design engineers able to discuss their products and technical knowledge in more detail here. I've found over and over again that the way a loudspeaker looks to the casual customer has little to do with how it sounds. YMMV. Respectfully...and thanks again for that small amount of insight into the detail design processes and resulting products. Edited January 9, 2015 by Chris A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Chris, a very insightful post... fighting over audio is not new, and isn't going away any time soon... Camaro or Mustang. It's no different on this forum than it is inside the company. Sales wants more for less, as do (most) customers. Execs want more to the bottom line. Engineers want performance, but also would rather find efficiencies rather than cutting costs for the sake of cutting costs. Some customers want perfomance over looks; some just want cheap; some want high end fit and finish over everything else; some want big, others small; some want it all, but life usually boils down to compromises somewhere. Everyone (I'm speaking of Klipsch customers and employees) wants great sound and so we take that and hope we find the right recipe. ...And since I don't think I saw it verified yet... yes the ports are flared on the inside too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It's cold as bolz here. I wish I were in Vegas listening to this stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 9, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 9, 2015 Ummm. No. But a little defensive aren't we. Lol! Oh that wasn't accusatory; I was just confused since there was no quote. how are you Dave? doing good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveWJr Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Ummm. No. But a little defensive aren't we. Lol! Oh that wasn't accusatory; I was just confused since there was no quote. how are you Dave? doing good? Quite well, just trying to stay warm up here. Had some groundplane measurements to do, and then the -27deg wind chill said that I didn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay L Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It seems the only way to make some happy is to lay out the entire design, along with who made what decision. Who cares, let your ears decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It's cold as bolz here. I wish I were in Vegas listening to this stuff... yup... it's not yet freeze-yer-snot cold... that usually comes in a couple weeks. It would be fine without the wind though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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