Dave Cawley Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 A deputy editor of a HiFi Magazine, after he left that job and perused a different avenue, told me "thank god I don't have to pretend that power cables make a difference anymore" !! However there is a case for low cost screened ones, and that is some equipment emits EMI from their power sockets, using a screened cable stops this spraying everywhere and getting into to other stuff. I can have any cables I want, but I choose to use ordinary and thick low cost power cables. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I love how one of the prerequisites to be a "true audiophile" who spends a ton of money on things like wires is that you have to be an absolute a**hole to everyone who thinks that notion is ridiculous. You mean your NOT going to take a second out on your house to get with the program? Just think of what your ears are missing! The Harm your doing to every living thing around you! Just kidding, Merry Xmas Mr Flame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 As far as power cords and audio AC power goes, use a large gauge wire, #12 or #10 would be good. Use hospital grade plugs and receptacles - they are made much better than contractor grade stuff, and offer measurable performance benefits. Easy to DIY and for way less than $100 each. I don't mean to intrude on others discussions, but you may have just made a case for the $1,000 power cord. If an item costs $100 to make, a 10-1 markup from manufacturing to retail is not uncommon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Just want to say that there are views which are opposed to yours. None of you need to look to know that cables are probably one of most volatile topics in audio. So there is a lot of debate Moray, I can understand the debate over analog cables, but how can a digital cable (e.g., a usb cable which transmits only 1's and 0's) be worth $2,000? I am not trying to start a pissing contest, just want to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 As far as power cords and audio AC power goes, use a large gauge wire, #12 or #10 would be good. Use hospital grade plugs and receptacles - they are made much better than contractor grade stuff, and offer measurable performance benefits. Easy to DIY and for way less than $100 each. I don't mean to intrude on others discussions, but you may have just made a case for the $1,000 power cord. If an item costs $100 to make, a 10-1 markup from manufacturing to retail is not uncommon. So my Corvette only costs $5600 to make? ROFLMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Good time to throw this out there to nip this in the Bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) So my Corvette only costs $5600 to make? ROFLMAO You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that at all!!! When you factor in all the Chinese pot metal parts, your Corvette only costs about $3500 to make... Edited December 25, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 A deputy editor of a HiFi Magazine, after he left that job and perused a different avenue, told me "thank god I don't have to pretend that power cables make a difference anymore" !! However there is a case for low cost screened ones, and that is some equipment emits EMI from their power sockets, using a screened cable stops this spraying everywhere and getting into to other stuff. I can have any cables I want, but I choose to use ordinary and thick low cost power cables. Dave I am one who does believe and know from experience that such things as cables, wires, power cords, capacitors, and tubes do make a difference - and when applied comprehensively across a system brings a significant improvement in performance. The issue is how to get that improvement in performance without falling prey to extremely overpriced solutions to get those improvements. I highlighted the above post because this is the kind of solution that I think helps us: An inexpensive solution that can solve a problem and make a system sound better. I wish there were more discussion using this approach that doesn't devolve into insanity. I believe that it is especially possible with power cords, wiring, and interconnects, because they can be made DIY or by one man craftspeople (like Dean, for example, who builds crossovers) or by simply having discussions on where to source the best solutions out of the realm of high-markup audio specialty retailers. When it comes to anything that's simply wire or easily terminated wire solutions, there should be excellent low cost solutions, and I think we would all benefit from this. The capacitor is an item that can illustrate how the "better" can be manipulated pricewise into the realm of "overpriced", yet when properly chosen absolutely bring results. This is something that we cannot make "DIY" - only the install potentially so. I was one who didn't think initially that caps were a big deal - until I experimented with them and found that they were. Using them made me a believer - and this coming from a mindset that would have been perfectly happy to learn the concept was bulls#it. I had a similar attitude towards interconnects and speaker wiring, and also found that differences do exist. The question for me - and I think many others who read here - is how do we take advantage of that knowledge and collective experimentation, without falling into the trap of the multithousand dollar interconnect? I do believe that sensible solutions exist, and given the high sensitivity, "audio magnifier" nature of Klipsch product we can all benefit from discussions of well made materials that can be used that DON'T break the bank. I remember the old tale that "all CD players sound the same" - and it's corollary from Julian Hirsch that all amplifiers sound the same - and KNOW that's BS. I also believe that we don't have to spend multiple thousands on a "Valhalla" cable. There ARE reasonable solutions out there, and I think we should focus on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 As far as power cords and audio AC power goes, use a large gauge wire, #12 or #10 would be good. Use hospital grade plugs and receptacles - they are made much better than contractor grade stuff, and offer measurable performance benefits. Easy to DIY and for way less than $100 each. I don't mean to intrude on others discussions, but you may have just made a case for the $1,000 power cord. If an item costs $100 to make, a 10-1 markup from manufacturing to retail is not uncommon. Correct. It is typical for an accessory item with a $100 raw cost to be marked up to $1,000. Or a $50 raw cost to $500. But yet in an internet based world with more competition, that cable could be obtainable pre-manufactured for much less. There has to be a well made, hospital grade, heavy gauge power cord that rejects noise and provides unrestricted power for a reasonable cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Just want to say that there are views which are opposed to yours. None of you need to look to know that cables are probably one of most volatile topics in audio. So there is a lot of debate Moray, I can understand the debate over analog cables, but how can a digital cable (e.g., a usb cable which transmits only 1's and 0's) be worth $2,000? I am not trying to start a pissing contest, just want to understand. Still no answer. Hmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The History Kid Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 My thing there is this: it comes down to...do I want an amplifier or a house? That shouldn't ever be a decision. A car maybe...but a house? Get out of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Utility<-------?----------->Art Absolutely. "Art" has always been a part of the equation for me. Being a tube geek, the allure of the glowing tubes has been a part of the equation - as well as the sound. A pair of MC30s, as an example, looks MUCH more appealing than it would with the same circuit as it would as just a black box. I wasn't given the choice, however. I bought the MC30s because of the "match" for horn based speaker systems, and that was the first priority - but it includes with it the "look" of the classic Mac. It comes with the package, and it's a nice feature of that amplifier. We could also discuss artistic differences where I had a realistic choice as I built my system: The Belle Klipsch vs. the LaScala. The LaScala from a technical standpoint is preferred, because the midrange horn drops down to 400hz vs. 500hz in a Belle. The Belle, however, was chosen for two reasons: It looks better, and the cabinet was more shallow, making it easier to place in my particular situation. It looks better in the home. If I wanted to take it a step further, the industrial LaScala is better than both home LaScala and Belle. The industrial version's bass bin is much more solid with less cabinet resonance, making it the best sonic option of the three. It's also ugly in a home living room. An "upgrade" I am considering for my Belle Klipsch goes like this: A rebuild of the cabinets, for two reasons: To solidify the bass chamber for less cabinet resonance, and to provide a new finish and strong build for another long run of service. Then an upgrade of the top section internally for a better horn and drivers for better performance. So the upgrade intent is three-fold: Better looks, better structural integrity, and better performance. A significant $$$ figure will be spent to address both the "art" as well as the utility. In the case of cables/power cords/caps, and similar, what I seek is a better understanding of the utility of the device, and what all the options are for best utility. This way I know what portion of my $$$ is "utility" and what portion is "art". This is more difficult to achieve when looking at a 20K amplifier, but some information can be discerned on a closer inspection and audition. We make value judgements every time we buy such a component, car, home, you name it. But I have "utility" as a primary concern - it must have that first. A pretty component with poor performance - or a pretty car with a track record of powertrain failure is off the potential purchase list. I don't exclude, or have a lack of appreciation for the art.of audio devices. But what I want to know when making those choices is what of the item is performance - and what is the "art". If I seek to buy a top quality interconnect without having to pay for the art, advertising, status, and so forth, I want to be able to make that choice. And this is what I find frustrating about audio tweak products - separating those two so I know where my money is going. I actually have an easier time purchasing a "total component" than I do with the "tweak" products, because there's so much "noise" in the discussions about such products that it's even more difficult to get real world opinions from people. If I ask of a certain component, or search about a certain component, I can get a range of opinions on many of those much more easily than with the tweak products. It's a lot more "trial and error" with the " tweak" stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 TAS=BS People who buy $1K+ power cords=stupid Even more stupid are the people who say "been doing this for 40 years" and bashing the realists. 40 years of stupidity=larger market of fools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Just want to say that there are views which are opposed to yours. None of you need to look to know that cables are probably one of most volatile topics in audio. So there is a lot of debate Moray, I can understand the debate over analog cables, but how can a digital cable (e.g., a usb cable which transmits only 1's and 0's) be worth $2,000? I am not trying to start a pissing contest, just want to understand. Still no answer. Hmmmm. It can't. As long as the signal to noise ratio is adequate and the detection threshold of the silicon recognizes the bits without fail, it's all BS. Oscillosocope photos would put all this shite to rest. I would do it, but it's not worth the effort. Besides, the best (shortest, and encased in steel) interconnects are PC boards............in AVR's or digital amps, where all you have is gosinto gosouta to speakers. Edited December 25, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Here's a pair of mono blocks from Boulder http://www.boulderamp.com/3050-p1.html They sell for $195,000. No doubt these are fine amps. Could there be such as concept as sounding 100X better than a $2,000 amp? Or, is it more likely we are buying the magnificent industrial art? I'll bet you unweld the box, you might find a couple of T amps. Edited December 25, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Hmm...Just realized in spite of the 15 or so times this thread has risen from Hell this is the first time I can recall Godwin's Law, or reductio ad Hitlerum coming into play. Dave Edited December 25, 2014 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Here's a pair of mono blocks from Boulder http://www.boulderamp.com/3050-p1.html They sell for $195,000. No doubt these are fine amps. Could there be such as concept as sounding 100X better than a $2,000 amp? Or, is it more likely we are buying the magnificent industrial art? Magnificent industrial art? Those things look like cat carriers that fell off a truck in the middle of the road and got run over. Or are you referring to the dude's slippers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The History Kid Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Here's a pair of mono blocks from Boulder http://www.boulderamp.com/3050-p1.html They sell for $195,000. No doubt these are fine amps. Could there be such as concept as sounding 100X better than a $2,000 amp? Or, is it more likely we are buying the magnificent industrial art? Magnificent industrial art? Those things look like cat carriers that fell off a truck in the middle of the road and got run over. Or are you referring to the dude's slippers? I liken that to when someone throws up on the floor. Where one person sees it for vomit, someone else sees the face of Jesus or something.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 No doubt these are fine amps. No particular reason to assume that. Not remotely as appealing visually as a mint ST-70. I am assuming they are SS, and will sound like transistors. As mentioned, they are not audiophile products but aimed at people to whom money is meaningless unless spent in a potlatch. As with the feasts accompanying a potlatch, those who build these things get a distribution of wealth. Certainly doesn't hurt my feelings any...good on'em! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The History Kid Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Someone's phantom quoting me. I never said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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