moray james Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Pretty shoddy work too! That inductor isn't even soldered, and if that is not standard 16 or 18 gauge coated power cord wire, I'll eat my hat. Hell, if there is $10 worth of materials total, I'll eat my hat. They sure are soldered get your readers on. If I asked you to do that to my existing speaker cables I bet you would want at least $50.00 for your time to do it plus materials. Point is if it works for the owner and they are happy with the price what the heck do you care? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I was cleaning my computer and just deleted this pic a few days ago. Dug it back up. Bet it can be duplicated for $25. Years ago a friend lent me $10,000 in MIT cables (a big box full). I tried them with B&W 800's and some very nice equipment. They did not sound good in my system. Another friend tried them and he liked them in his system and bought some of the cheaper models. It is a shot in the dark, an expensive shot in the dark. One of the notable aspects of that story is that you did hear a difference.I wonder if there is a cap hidden under that inductor in the picture? That would be your zobel. Don't know what in under the inductor, found the photo on the internets. I did hear a difference with these, it was many years ago but I do remember that the balance seemed off using the MITs. The only other cable where I ever heard a real difference was when I tried solid core 12 ga wire from some old romex. Must have been some form of oxidation or resistence because the difference was huge. The speakers sounded lifeless and the top end was gone. Same friend with the MITs also had the really skinny fancy wire (intentionally sized too small) and it also made a difference (as can be expected from too small of a wire - that is how Monster use to show off their wire in the early days). My real problem is that there is no real way of knowing what the difference should be with expensive cables. Try this wire, it cost as much as a good component and it may or may sound different, and if it does sound different, the only explanantion is some flowery description that means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I was cleaning my computer and just deleted this pic a few days ago. Dug it back up. Bet it can be duplicated for $25. Years ago a friend lent me $10,000 in MIT cables (a big box full). I tried them with B&W 800's and some very nice equipment. They did not sound good in my system. Another friend tried them and he liked them in his system and bought some of the cheaper models. It is a shot in the dark, an expensive shot in the dark. One of the notable aspects of that story is that you did hear a difference. I wonder if there is a cap hidden under that inductor in the picture? That would be your zobel. Don't know what in under the inductor, found the photo on the internets. I did hear a difference with these, it was many years ago but I do remember that the balance seemed off using the MITs. The only other cable where I ever heard a real difference was when I tried solid core 12 ga wire from some old romex. Must have been some form of oxidation or resistence because the difference was huge. The speakers sounded lifeless and the top end was gone. Same friend with the MITs also had the really skinny fancy wire (intentionally sized too small) and it also made a difference (as can be expected from too small of a wire - that is how Monster use to show off their wire in the early days). My real problem is that there is no real way of knowing what the difference should be with expensive cables. Try this wire, it cost as much as a good component and it may or may sound different, and if it does sound different, the only explanantion is some flowery description that means nothing. You are right that flowery descriptions do not mean a thing. All that matters is do you like how it sounds and is the price reasonable for the perceived improvement? What else is there? Explanations don't count for anything no matter how it sounds. That's how I make my buying decisions. Do I like it? If yes, do I like it enough to buy it? Best regards Moray James. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdross1 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It should be that way if it pleases the ears great, if it pleases the mind even better. Sure will be glad when the cellar is done we miss our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have looked for higher cost cables on the used market. I bought some from a forum member (they were lost in transit) and now some MIT's on Audiogon. Before that I bought some power cables on Amazon that were in the sub-$100 range. Those cables eliminated some noise in the system. I am becoming more an more convinced that I have tin ear, but I can hear "noise" in the system and the non-laptop cables have made a difference in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Cawley Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Fact: exotic phono cartridges often have greater profit margin than cables Trust me, no, no and no again !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Try this wire, it cost as much as a good component and it may or may sound different, and if it does sound different, the only explanantion is some flowery description that means nothing. And note the responses to the skeptics filled with logical fallacies and just plain nonsense. It's homeopathic audio practice: good for those selling high margin gear but not really very helpful to the consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Try this wire, it cost as much as a good component and it may or may sound different, and if it does sound different, the only explanantion is some flowery description that means nothing. And note the responses to the skeptics filled with logical fallacies and just plain nonsense. It's homeopathic audio practice: good for those selling high margin gear but not really very helpful to the consumer. What does "the consumer" want? Depends on how gullible they are, and there's a sucker born every minute. The homeopathic audio consumer wants validation and will entertain the most discredited nonsense to maintain the self deception, where a more rational consumer may focus on function and value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I suppose in a way you're correct. If I drive a Ferrari and a Chevy Camaro beats me in a drag race, I likely won't care because I'm driving a mutherfuckin' Ferrari. I would view a Boulder amp as a luxury item. Klipsch speakers are proof-of-concept engineering, quite rational if you ask me. I don't view MIT cables (or any magic wires) as a luxury item, and find efforts to elevate them to such status utterly ridiculous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Try this wire, it cost as much as a good component and it may or may sound different, and if it does sound different, the only explanantion is some flowery description that means nothing. And note the responses to the skeptics filled with logical fallacies and just plain nonsense. It's homeopathic audio practice: good for those selling high margin gear but not really very helpful to the consumer. What does "the consumer" want? The truth? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!! Courtesy of A Few Good Men 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just see no reason to denigrate this choice over so many similar ones? It's the wire folks who denigrate those who don't buy into the myth, not the other way around. The wealth-jealousy argument you are making on their behalf is presumptive and denigrating, for example. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I certainly do not see the wealth-jeasously part of Marks argument. I also disagree with the notion that "wire folks" (whatever that means) denegrate more than the "non wire folks". It appears from my standpoint than when anyone asks a question or makes a comment on "wires" (or power strips for that matter) they are hit with a barrage of vitriol and calumniation. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) "Here's your new 5 carat diamond ring Mr. Jones. As you know, diamonds are very low on function versus price curve, and the price is controlled by a global cartel, without which would collapse into the value of the labor it takes to cut and polish them. You're paying for artificial rarity. Enjoy!" Many buyers know that, and they are buying the stones solely because they like the way they look. "Here's your $4M photograph Mr. Smith. The materials in this cost about $300, and while true that anyone could have taken this photo, this one was taken by a man of massive self promotional means, and is supported by a rigged art-patron marketing process designed to pick winners, and raise prices astronomically to benefit the riggers of the system. Enjoy!" Many buyers know that, and they are buying the pictures solely because they like the way they look. As far as wires go, the false advertising that seems to dominate the advertising and pimping regarding these products is designed to make the buyer think s/he is purchasing a superior product which will make orders of magnitude of difference to the sound of their systems. When they get the wires home and can't hear any improvement, they are told the wires need to be broken in for a few hundred hours before they will sound right. Please note that these people are not buying these wires to hang on the wall or wear around their necks or fingers to be looked at. The wires were purchased because of the expectation that an improvement in the sound quality of their stereo system would occur, and when that didn't happen, they were lied to. They were conned. What a shame. Edited January 21, 2015 by Don Richard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Mark, Mark , Mark what am I going to do with you. Whenever it comes to cables you are totally schizoid man. On one hand you respond to Tavirand's original post with an honest, and more than likely, accurate assessment of the cables as being little more than a Zobel network. Then you go off into hifi karma land where like, Dude, if it feels good it must be good. On one hand you display the technical understanding, that along with your creative chops, borderline (the borderline's a disclaimer in case I'm sued or something) audio genius, and then, whoops, you are off to your dark side where marketing rules and never give the sucker an even break , but I can justify it man, because it's all cool, cause I'm from California. Then there's this third guy. Honest Mark. He's kinda homespun but at the same time kinda tense, because he firmly believes in his heart of hearts that sound matters. That there is skill and quality in audio, and if you apply it to a component, it will be reflected, not in the psuedo perception of sound, but in it's actuality. Mark Deneen would never, never, make a cable to sell. And, never, never would he try to con you into believing it's something more than it is, it's a lifestyle decision, it's will get you laid etc. Mark if you build a cable and say it's something special, I'll buy it, because your word is something I could take to the bank. But until somebody I trust tells me that dressed up inductors, phony cable runs, twisty takeoffs of multi-colored wire, enshrine my music in a new form of audio nirvana, then a skeptic I shall remain. Now Tavirnand, if you have not been scared off, you are witnessing a seeming discussion of those who are in favor of cables and those who are not. In actuality most of these post deals more with the state of understanding of different camps of achieving audio nirvossa. You also have received some very skeptical reviews from people who have owed or are familiar with these cables. If you are still around, please check in and don't be afraid to participate. After all a good donneybrook is a wonderful thing to watch, but more fun when you actually get into the scrum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't care if people like and own fancy cables, but I do care when I see posts trying to convince new people to spend a huge amount on wire when they are budgeting $1000 for a receiver and $2000 on speakers. Spending any extra money on better speakers and using monoprice wire is money better spent IMHO. People are free to believe anything, but when they try to convince others that these beliefs are facts if when I start debates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) So many good comments, I don't even know where to jump in. ETH: Earl, you disavowed your "tin ear." Remember, I saw you work in a garage in West Virginia going through unknown speakers with unknown audio gear. Your "tin ear" correctly picked out the winners and losers, and found the distortion even though the owner was trying to convince you otherwise. I'm officially upgrading your Tin ear to Platinum. You're going to have to keep working on that Golden Ear, though. I think you've got enough stuff now to make a pretty good run at it. +++ Mdeneen: Mark, I don't "know" you or your resume, but I gather you've got some pretty solid background in audio. Even if I had not known that, it would not alter my perception that your knowledge in audio, and in audio marketing is pretty good. For you it's not simply "about the gear" and I think you're exactly right. I think you're a bit misunderstood in that you are speaking on a very philosophical plane which I think you have articulated perfectly. Keep writing, I like reading your stuff, and I understand where you're coming from. BTW Mark, in the signature section, you say you have turned off your PM, your "Public Message." That is your PM, "Private Message." I would have sent you a PM telling you that, but I can't. +++ Don Rogers: I like your stuff, too but take it easy on my man Mark! I'm sure he doesn't need my help though, he seems pretty comfortable in his own skin. Great discussions! +++ And about me: Just to make trouble, I passively bi-amped my speakers tonight. I think they sound great. Edited January 22, 2015 by wvu80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I've got a pair of MIT Terminator 6. Any takers? I can bring them to Hope and we can ABX the crap out of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffen Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It seems as if several here are "wire privileged" and may not understand how wire privileged they are in the audio world. Maybe they need to do their fair share as Quiet Hollow has so generously offered and give up your wires to those less privileged to even the playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I have never seen wire companies say they will "make orders of magnitude difference in sound." What they describe about their wires sounds like a very large difference in sound. It's not just the manufacturers, but the salesmen, company reps at audio shows, and magazine reviewers who are bombastic in their descriptions. The manufacturers preach pseudoscience such as "microdiode rectification" and "skin effect" along with "transmission line issues" as audibly significant problems their wires solve. Here's the very first paragraph I came to on the Klipsch product site: "Delivering an intense sound experience in an elegant package, our floorstanding speakers provide soaring highs and booming lows while complementing your home décor. Serious audiophiles will appreciate the power and audio fidelity provided by our high quality, full range speakers." Probably true Here's the first paragraph I came to at Kimber Cables: "Like the first tone of a scale, the Tonik interconnect provides the foundation of truly accurate performance and value. Through the use of Kimber Kable's legendary tri-braid field geometry, VariStrand™, Ultrapure copper conductors and our special recipe PE dielectric, the Tonik allows music to flow with power, smoothness and harmonic richness. Probably bullshit. Since you are the expert on what everyone should buy, go ahead and list everything that everyone should buy. Have fun convincing everyone Don. I'm not telling anyone what to buy. Indeed, I am offering an alternative view, based on real science, so that people can make up their own minds. If they decide to spend kilobucks on wire, fine. If they don't, they will have more cash available to buy better phono carts, amps, speakers, etc., things that few would argue will make a real difference in their systems. Edited January 22, 2015 by Don Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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