Palladium P-312W Subwoofer

[Scrappydue]

I have never heard one of those or know anyone who has. Heard they are beasts

[DaveWJr]

The area of a circle is pi.r^2.

A 15" circle area is about 177 sq. in.

A 12" circle area is about 113 sq. in.

 

 The RSW 15 has dual 15's with a surface area of 354 where the "3" 12's in the Palladium equal's 339 so the RSW 15 wins in surface area.

 

 RSW 15 specs:

 

 

Frequency Response: 19-120Hz (+-)3dB POWER HANDLING: FTC Rated Power: 650 watts continuous, 30-110Hz @ <1% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2400 watts @ <1% THD / *Dynamic power indicates the actual power this amplifier will deliver to the woofer under normal oper MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 121dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter

 

 

Palladium specs:

 

 

Frequency Response: 18-120Hz +/-3dB MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 123dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m AMPLIFIER: BASH digital hybrid AMPLIFIER POWER: FTC rated power: 1000 watts continuous @ <2% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2500 watts

 

Power output (FTC) appears to be a lot more with the Palladium but its rated at TWICE the distortion level, 2% vs 1% thd. Dynamic power is only 100 watts more for the Palladium at 2500 vs 2400 but again at twice the distortion level.

 

Just looking at the numbers I'm not convinced that the Palladium would be significantly better than the RSW-15.

1% vs. 2% THD for a subwoofer is a meaningless difference. Especially when talking about kilowatt amplifiers, it means that difference shrinks even more. When you get into the 10% region, the conversation truly begins.

 

 

Just looking at the numbers I'm not convinced that the Palladium would be significantly better than the RSW-15.

 

Those numbers mean nothing without knowing the xmax of the drivers and drones.  You need to calculate volume, not area.

 

 

 

 

EDIT, someone just needs to get one of each and drag race them!

 

I can confirm that the Palladium 12" has greater linear excursion than the RSW 15 driver. This is not to say that it is "superior" due to the significant cone area difference. However, the P312 does not disappoint on any front. It produces a hilarious amount of output for its size. When you run two of them (which we do in one of our listening rooms), it becomes extra exciting

 

 

 

I may give a Seaton

great idea

 

 

 

or Velodyne DD-18

horrible idea.

 

seaton subs are monsters and would spank both subs you have. they are one of the best commercially available subs for music i have ever heard.  

 

 

Now I get that the Seaton subs is a great idea, but a DD-18 a horrible idea?  

 

Come on Scrappy, there is nothing "horrible" about a DD-18.  It is a wonderfully accurate and musical sub.  It's just not the monster HT sub that the Seaton is best known for.

 

Bill

 

The Velodyne DD-18 and DD-18+ are both phenomenal products. They are very highly respected around here for their performance. You will be hard pressed to find a lower distortion subwoofer on the commercial market with its sonic output capabilities. Data Bass, while informative, does not tell the entire story.

 

I'll let everyone in on a fun fact: us engineers need our competitors to make high quality products that at least match and frankly can hopefully exceed what we're doing at the moment. When you ask "how are they doing that?" and can then apply your own design approach and supersede their performance, that's when you get the best products. This competition is what drives engineering forward. Once you're the leader, and if no one else is close, progress can stagnate. When there is a competitor making something you can truly respect, it pushes you further to leap frog them and give your customers the new greatest product on the market.

 

This is especially important in headphones with the likes of Sennheiser, AKG and Grado. Not a single person in this office would say their performance-oriented products are anything but superb. For loudspeakers, we likewise have brands and engineering principles that we respect. One becomes deluded quite easily otherwise, and the customer ends up losing out.

Edited January 28, 2015 by DaveWJr

[AUDIOPHILENH]

Thank you for confirming that DaveWjr. I think I may give the P-312W a listen for curiosity sake as I am addicted to buying and testing as much audio gear as possible as long as I do not lose that much when I go to sell it.I have a good friend who owns a Legacy Audio Xtreme XD and Paradigm SUB15 that may pull the trigger on a Seaton and JTR. His Legacy is a beast and an Excellent performer. I will eventually end up giving a Seaton F2 a shot knowing that it will probably become my benchmark.The Funk does look sweet and has the build quality and power to back it up.

 

[Scrappydue]

if you buy a jtr S2 it will be the new benchmark i'm betting. if i had unlimited funds i would have a couple of them as the foundation of my theater. 

[Paducah Home Theater]

Every time I even hear the words "Palladium" and "subwoofer", I hear the song "X" by Xzibit in my head. Yeah I crank this one.

"Rockin' chains, stadium, PALLADIUMS, cracked craniums
My whole skeleton is dipped in titanium..."



No, really, that's the lyrics.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

 

The area of a circle is pi.r^2.

A 15" circle area is about 177 sq. in.

A 12" circle area is about 113 sq. in.

 

 The RSW 15 has dual 15's with a surface area of 354 where the "3" 12's in the Palladium equal's 339 so the RSW 15 wins in surface area.

 

 RSW 15 specs:

 

 

Frequency Response: 19-120Hz (+-)3dB POWER HANDLING: FTC Rated Power: 650 watts continuous, 30-110Hz @ <1% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2400 watts @ <1% THD / *Dynamic power indicates the actual power this amplifier will deliver to the woofer under normal oper MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 121dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter

 

 

Palladium specs:

 

 

Frequency Response: 18-120Hz +/-3dB MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 123dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m AMPLIFIER: BASH digital hybrid AMPLIFIER POWER: FTC rated power: 1000 watts continuous @ <2% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2500 watts

 

Power output (FTC) appears to be a lot more with the Palladium but its rated at TWICE the distortion level, 2% vs 1% thd. Dynamic power is only 100 watts more for the Palladium at 2500 vs 2400 but again at twice the distortion level.

 

Just looking at the numbers I'm not convinced that the Palladium would be significantly better than the RSW-15.

1% vs. 2% THD for a subwoofer is a meaningless difference. Especially when talking about kilowatt amplifiers, it means that difference shrinks even more. When you get into the 10% region, the conversation truly begins.

 

 

Just looking at the numbers I'm not convinced that the Palladium would be significantly better than the RSW-15.

 

Those numbers mean nothing without knowing the xmax of the drivers and drones.  You need to calculate volume, not area.

 

 

 

 

EDIT, someone just needs to get one of each and drag race them!

 

I can confirm that the Palladium 12" has greater linear excursion than the RSW 15 driver. This is not to say that it is "superior" due to the significant cone area difference. However, the P312 does not disappoint on any front. It produces a hilarious amount of output for its size. When you run two of them (which we do in one of our listening rooms), it becomes extra exciting

 

 

 

 

Thanks for chiming in here.  The latest story being spread by the self proclaimed experts is that the Palladiums have most of the cost in the finish.  Pretty soon the rumors will be that the Palladiums are below the RF series but just have a pretty finish. 

[DaveWJr]

Every time I even hear the words "Palladium" and "subwoofer", I hear the song "X" by Xzibit in my head. Yeah I crank this one.

"Rockin' chains, stadium, PALLADIUMS, cracked craniums

My whole skeleton is dipped in titanium..."

No, really, that's the lyrics.

Is your drop top tinted on 20s and using rappers as crash test dummies? Got to have the whole package, you know.

 

All types of music go through Klipsch speakers during development

[DaveWJr]

 

 

The area of a circle is pi.r^2.

A 15" circle area is about 177 sq. in.

A 12" circle area is about 113 sq. in.

 

 The RSW 15 has dual 15's with a surface area of 354 where the "3" 12's in the Palladium equal's 339 so the RSW 15 wins in surface area.

 

 RSW 15 specs:

 

 

Frequency Response: 19-120Hz (+-)3dB POWER HANDLING: FTC Rated Power: 650 watts continuous, 30-110Hz @ <1% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2400 watts @ <1% THD / *Dynamic power indicates the actual power this amplifier will deliver to the woofer under normal oper MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 121dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter

 

 

Palladium specs:

 

 

Frequency Response: 18-120Hz +/-3dB MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 123dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m AMPLIFIER: BASH digital hybrid AMPLIFIER POWER: FTC rated power: 1000 watts continuous @ <2% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2500 watts

 

Power output (FTC) appears to be a lot more with the Palladium but its rated at TWICE the distortion level, 2% vs 1% thd. Dynamic power is only 100 watts more for the Palladium at 2500 vs 2400 but again at twice the distortion level.

 

Just looking at the numbers I'm not convinced that the Palladium would be significantly better than the RSW-15.

1% vs. 2% THD for a subwoofer is a meaningless difference. Especially when talking about kilowatt amplifiers, it means that difference shrinks even more. When you get into the 10% region, the conversation truly begins.

 

 

Just looking at the numbers I'm not convinced that the Palladium would be significantly better than the RSW-15.

 

Those numbers mean nothing without knowing the xmax of the drivers and drones.  You need to calculate volume, not area.

 

 

 

 

EDIT, someone just needs to get one of each and drag race them!

 

I can confirm that the Palladium 12" has greater linear excursion than the RSW 15 driver. This is not to say that it is "superior" due to the significant cone area difference. However, the P312 does not disappoint on any front. It produces a hilarious amount of output for its size. When you run two of them (which we do in one of our listening rooms), it becomes extra exciting

 

 

 

 

Thanks for chiming in here.  The latest story being spread by the self proclaimed experts is that the Palladiums have most of the cost in the finish.  Pretty soon the rumors will be that the Palladiums are below the RF series but just have a pretty finish. 

 

I can also confirm that this is a load of garbage.  If people knew the complexity, features and thus the price of the woofers alone (which were all 100% custom designed by our chief acoustic engineer), they wouldn't think that for a second. I'm not talking about the sub either. I'm talking on all Palladium woofers be it 7, 8 or 9".

 

On the 312 for instance, the front baffle which looks normal is in fact 3 (yes, 3) layers of heat formed MDF. That silver trim ring which insets the driver so the surround is flush with the front is primarily there to hide that fact.

 

There is nothing cheap or corner cut about anything in Palladium.

Edited January 29, 2015 by DaveWJr

[jjptkd]

 I was in no way trying to trash talk the Palladium sub, I was merely pointing out some observations. My point with the 2% vs 1% distortion rating between the two was that they were not measured equally. Had the power output of the RSW been measured at 2% I believe the difference of 685 watts vs 1000 watts would shrink.

[Ceptorman]

 

 

 

The area of a circle is pi.r^2.

A 15" circle area is about 177 sq. in.

A 12" circle area is about 113 sq. in.

 

 The RSW 15 has dual 15's with a surface area of 354 where the "3" 12's in the Palladium equal's 339 so the RSW 15 wins in surface area.

 

 RSW 15 specs:

 

 

Frequency Response: 19-120Hz (+-)3dB POWER HANDLING: FTC Rated Power: 650 watts continuous, 30-110Hz @ <1% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2400 watts @ <1% THD / *Dynamic power indicates the actual power this amplifier will deliver to the woofer under normal oper MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 121dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter

 

 

Palladium specs:

 

 

Frequency Response: 18-120Hz +/-3dB MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 123dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m AMPLIFIER: BASH digital hybrid AMPLIFIER POWER: FTC rated power: 1000 watts continuous @ <2% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2500 watts

 

Power output (FTC) appears to be a lot more with the Palladium but its rated at TWICE the distortion level, 2% vs 1% thd. Dynamic power is only 100 watts more for the Palladium at 2500 vs 2400 but again at twice the distortion level.

 

Just looking at the numbers I'm not convinced that the Palladium would be significantly better than the RSW-15.

1% vs. 2% THD for a subwoofer is a meaningless difference. Especially when talking about kilowatt amplifiers, it means that difference shrinks even more. When you get into the 10% region, the conversation truly begins.

 

 

Just looking at the numbers I'm not convinced that the Palladium would be significantly better than the RSW-15.

 

Those numbers mean nothing without knowing the xmax of the drivers and drones.  You need to calculate volume, not area.

 

 

 

 

EDIT, someone just needs to get one of each and drag race them!

 

I can confirm that the Palladium 12" has greater linear excursion than the RSW 15 driver. This is not to say that it is "superior" due to the significant cone area difference. However, the P312 does not disappoint on any front. It produces a hilarious amount of output for its size. When you run two of them (which we do in one of our listening rooms), it becomes extra exciting

 

 

 

 

Thanks for chiming in here.  The latest story being spread by the self proclaimed experts is that the Palladiums have most of the cost in the finish.  Pretty soon the rumors will be that the Palladiums are below the RF series but just have a pretty finish. 

 

I can also confirm that this is a load of garbage.  If people knew the complexity, features and thus the price of the woofers alone (which were all 100% custom designed by our chief acoustic engineer), they wouldn't think that for a second. I'm not talking about the sub either. I'm talking on all Palladium woofers be it 7, 8 or 9".

 

On the 312 for instance, the front baffle which looks normal is in fact 3 (yes, 3) layers of heat formed MDF. That silver trim ring which insets the driver so the surround is flush with the front is primarily there to hide that fact.

 

There is nothing cheap or corner cut about anything in Palladium.

 

I have a pair of 38s!!!   Always wanted to say that. P38f….and I was amazed how much bass they produce. With 2 channel listening, a sub isn't really needed, a sub does help in HT though.

DaveW, is the acoustic engineer you referred to Chris? Just curious.

[DaveWJr]

Since you at a minimum know of him, yes, that would be correct.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

 

I have a pair of 38s!!!   Always wanted to say that. P38f….and I was amazed how much bass they produce. With 2 channel listening, a sub isn't really needed, a sub does help in HT though.

DaveW, is the acoustic engineer you referred to Chris? Just curious.

 

 

Same here, they do produce some bass.  I have an issue to chase down with my blue ray player and runnign the sepakers as large makes the sub not come on.  I still get good bass. 

 

I have had one of the drivers out and it is a really well built high quality driver.  No stamped baskets here. 

[twk123]

Every time I even hear the words "Palladium" and "subwoofer", I hear the song "X" by Xzibit in my head. Yeah I crank this one.

"Rockin' chains, stadium, PALLADIUMS, cracked craniums

My whole skeleton is dipped in titanium..."

No, really, that's the lyrics.

 

So he has a Palladium HT system with a Klipsch Stadium in is kitchen and Reference Headphones?

 

Maybe he is sponsored by Klipsch.

[Scrappydue]

The latest story being spread by the self proclaimed experts is that the Palladiums have most of the cost in the finish.

 ill assume this was directed at me. never have i said i was an expert about anything. i only speak of my experience. i have only assumed what palladium anything sounded like till about a month ago. then i got to hear the full 37 home theater with the 312 sub. now while not in a super perfect room by any means, i thought it sounded good. so much in fact i am keeping my eye out on the market for a set at a deal price. if it happens it happens. if not then no big deal. these would never replace my cinema gear. but they could be MY perfect living room speaker. i think palladium has its place, and that is for people who want outstanding sounding AND looking speakers. period. 

 

I can also confirm that this is a load of garbage.  If people knew the complexity, features and thus the price of the woofers alone (which were all 100% custom designed by our chief acoustic engineer), they wouldn't think that for a second. I'm not talking about the sub either. I'm talking on all Palladium woofers be it 7, 8 or 9".   On the 312 for instance, the front baffle which looks normal is in fact 3 (yes, 3) layers of heat formed MDF. That silver trim ring which insets the driver so the surround is flush with the front is primarily there to hide that fact.   There is nothing cheap or corner cut about anything in Palladium.

while you are right about not knowing the complexity of anything in the sub i do know the mark ups on klipsch speakers. so regaurdless of what i do know i am good at math and to make profit on anything you can only spend X amount of dollars on amp, woofer, radiators, and enclosure. now like i said before, palladiums have their place. and if i could only have one sub in my living room and i had palladiums speaker then no doubt it would be the 312. but until that day comes, in my eyes, DIY reigns supreme and 18" woofers are where its at if you are any way serious about heavy duty LFE.

 

all my opinion of course as always.  

[tigerwoodKhorns]

 

The latest story being spread by the self proclaimed experts is that the Palladiums have most of the cost in the finish.

 ill assume this was directed at me. never have i said i was an expert about anything. i only speak of my experience. i have only assumed what palladium anything sounded like till about a month ago. then i got to hear the full 37 home theater with the 312 sub. now while not in a super perfect room by any means, i thought it sounded good. so much in fact i am keeping my eye out on the market for a set at a deal price. if it happens it happens. if not then no big deal. these would never replace my cinema gear. but they could be MY perfect living room speaker. i think palladium has its place, and that is for people who want outstanding sounding AND looking speakers. period. 

 

 

 

 

No hard feelings.

 

But they are much more than finish.  I had to take apart a P38 and it is very nicely constructed.  The drivers are really nicely made, more so than I had expected. 

 

Don't want people to think that these are a just pretty face, but unfortunately, if soemthing is said enough times, it becomes the "truth."

 

Careful with the 37's.  I bought a pair just to hear them and wound up with a whole Palladium HT. 

[derrickdj1]

Surface area is not the whole story of who can put out more air.  Motor strength, magnet construction, Xmax, and Xmech also have a part in displacement.

[DaveWJr]

 

The latest story being spread by the self proclaimed experts is that the Palladiums have most of the cost in the finish.

 ill assume this was directed at me. never have i said i was an expert about anything. i only speak of my experience. i have only assumed what palladium anything sounded like till about a month ago. then i got to hear the full 37 home theater with the 312 sub. now while not in a super perfect room by any means, i thought it sounded good. so much in fact i am keeping my eye out on the market for a set at a deal price. if it happens it happens. if not then no big deal. these would never replace my cinema gear. but they could be MY perfect living room speaker. i think palladium has its place, and that is for people who want outstanding sounding AND looking speakers. period. 

 

 

 

I can also confirm that this is a load of garbage.  If people knew the complexity, features and thus the price of the woofers alone (which were all 100% custom designed by our chief acoustic engineer), they wouldn't think that for a second. I'm not talking about the sub either. I'm talking on all Palladium woofers be it 7, 8 or 9".   On the 312 for instance, the front baffle which looks normal is in fact 3 (yes, 3) layers of heat formed MDF. That silver trim ring which insets the driver so the surround is flush with the front is primarily there to hide that fact.   There is nothing cheap or corner cut about anything in Palladium.

while you are right about not knowing the complexity of anything in the sub i do know the mark ups on klipsch speakers. so regaurdless of what i do know i am good at math and to make profit on anything you can only spend X amount of dollars on amp, woofer, radiators, and enclosure. now like i said before, palladiums have their place. and if i could only have one sub in my living room and i had palladiums speaker then no doubt it would be the 312. but until that day comes, in my eyes, DIY reigns supreme and 18" woofers are where its at if you are any way serious about heavy duty LFE.

 

all my opinion of course as always.  

 

All I can tell you is that with 100% honesty, the money in Palladium is in the performance. Everything else is secondary. I will also say without hesitation that you will not find drivers of this build quality and complexity in any speaker near Palladium's price. The company was founded on a no BS principle, and that was fundamental to Palladium. I have no reason to lie to you especially since this is a Klipsch forum and I'm in engineering rather than sales or marketing.

[Scrappydue]

Surface area is not the whole story of who can put out more air.  Motor strength, magnet construction, Xmax, and Xmech also have a part in displacement.

 come on derrick. you know that i know that. lets use for instance the new SI 11" driver. when i wrote them about that they told me that it would be the same depth as the 18's that i have as well as the same sound i was looking for. but no where near the output. but it was designed for the person who wanted a 12" cube rather than some huge box. you understand that each sub has its place. that is all i was saying. 

 

sell all 6 of your 18's and take out a small loan to buy 6 palladiums 

[DaveWJr]

*gazes longingly upwards*

 

What I could do with 4 18s in my living room......

 

 

......is get yelled at by my wife

[tigerwoodKhorns]

 

All I can tell you is that with 100% honesty, the money in Palladium is in the performance. Everything else is secondary. I will also say without hesitation that you will not find drivers of this build quality and complexity in any speaker near Palladium's price. The company was founded on a no BS principle, and that was fundamental to Palladium. I have no reason to lie to you especially since this is a Klipsch forum and I'm in engineering rather than sales or marketing.

 

 

 

I can tell you that I have had Palladiums apart (woofer replacement for cosmetic reason) and B&W Signature 800's apart (forget why, but I had to take the woofer out).  I remember being more impressed when I popped out the Palladium driver.  Just beautiful construction.