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First Experience with Audyssey Calibration (not quite what I expected)


Youthman

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There's a certain amount of digital offset tolerance figured into the DSP that affords the software the latitude to match up what it determines as "reference level" acoustically with what is expected of the amp at -0 dB FS input. I've seen anywhere's from +/- 10 to 15 dB on consumer level gear on upwards to +/- 30 dB and beyond for pro-sound and DAW respectively.

 

In short, what Scrappy said.

 

Which is perfectly OK. This is stricly a matter of convenience (having "0" automatically pinned to reference), and the resultant trim levels are only indicative of the size of the amp in relation to the requirements of the listening position. If it bottoms the L,R, or C trim at 12 dB of cut, all that means is the amp is larger than required for reference level play back at the listening position, by some margin.

 

The only problem arises if Audyssey buries all the channels at 12 dB of cut, and you know for a fact that some of the other channels are less sensitive. That's a red flag. In that scenario, some of the channels would very likely be out of balance as they don't require as much trim. Quickly remedied by cross checking with an SPL meter and the onboard pink noise.

 

I don't know if XT32 will actually do that, as I don't have any experience with it on full range speakers, but MCACC Pro won't. It'll trim as far as the most sensitive channel requires as far as it can, then adjust the other channels in reference to that....keeping the channel-to-channel balance correct at the expense of lining up -0 dB FS on the front panel with "reference level" acoustically.

 

In summary, this is only a matter of sliding scales. It doesn't effect the EQ capability, DSP, or overall volume levels in any way. If required, the solution involves using an SPL meter, which is how it was done long before all the fully automatic units hit the shelves.

 

One could just set the mains or center at zero trim, adjust the surrounds, and enjoy the looks on visitors' faces when the system tears apart the room at -35 dB on the volume knob. :D

Edited by Quiet_Hollow
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When my side and rear speakers were set to -12 on the Denon X-4000 set to 7.1 the distortion levels were excessive in my opinion.

When I set the levels back to zero everything was clear as a bell. Don't know why.

JJK

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There's definitely a problem if the sides and/or rears recieve maximum trim.

 

...but you fixed it the right way.

 

The distortion could be very well be unique to that particular model. Who knows. Not all gear handles the extreme ends of the scale in the same way. Tolerances in the digital realm are not necessarily cut and dry. Some times all it takes is a shuffle of 0.5 to 1 dB  here or there to go from outstanding to pure trash. Calibrated test signals (Audacity, Binks, etc.) are great at fishing that kind of info out of a system.

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I have found mine to be easily repeatable. After running XT32 teh 64ii is bottomed out at -12, and 75db with a pink noise test tone from spears and munsil is -2.0db volume. So I boost the fronts 2db so they match the center's 75db at -2.0 volume and then boost the subs +2db to match the new "reference" volume of -2.0, and then another +5 db. I consistently find the sub channel about -5db low after each run (about 70-71db at reference volume).

 

My trim levels after XT32 are FL and FR at -7.5db, the Center is -12db and the subs are -2.5db, all matching 75db with a test tone at -2.0 master volume.

Edited by gadgtfreek
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i've added drapes, and a couch, and swapped sub amps since the last time I ran audyssey so I ran it again tonight to improve accuracy and see if I ran into any of the problems you describe.

 

4.1 speakers with a pretty basic seating arrangement:

 

onkyo tx-nr1010 with audyssey xt32

KP-201 mains

in-wall surrounds

Cinema F20 sub

 

so, efficient speakers and a hefty sub.

 

I kicked off the process and adjusted the amp gain until the screen read 75dB, then went through the 8 measurement positions ordered in this guide:

 

http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/how-to

 

Distances were all measured accurately. It set the sub trim at +1.5 and the mains are +1.5/+3 (compensating for inconsistent side wall distances), and similar reasonable settings for the surrounds, with trim levels inline with their distance.

 

So, it was spot on the first run through and only took about 20 minutes. I honestly don't know what to tell you in the form of advice for your setup. :/

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i've added drapes, and a couch, and swapped sub amps since the last time I ran audyssey so I ran it again tonight to improve accuracy and see if I ran into any of the problems you describe.

 

4.1 speakers with a pretty basic seating arrangement:

 

onkyo tx-nr1010 with audyssey xt32

KP-201 mains

in-wall surrounds

Cinema F20 sub

 

so, efficient speakers and a hefty sub.

 

I kicked off the process and adjusted the amp gain until the screen read 75dB, then went through the 8 measurement positions ordered in this guide:

 

http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/how-to

 

Distances were all measured accurately. It set the sub trim at +1.5 and the mains are +1.5/+3 (compensating for inconsistent side wall distances), and similar reasonable settings for the surrounds, with trim levels inline with their distance.

 

So, it was spot on the first run through and only took about 20 minutes. I honestly don't know what to tell you in the form of advice for your setup. :/

 

I'm assuming you are replying to Youthman (or gadgtfreek, who posted just before you did?). 

 

I think your main speakers, while very efficient, are about 6 to 8 dB less efficient than Youthman's La Scalas, depending on how they are measured.  I don't remember what speakers gadgtfreek has.  If your speakers are farther away from the MLP than theirs are, this, and the somewhat lower efficency of the KP-201, might explain the difference in results (?).  Or not.

Edited by garyrc
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Scrappy, do you think this will be better when I have them behind the false wall when the new one is built?  They will be moved back about 3'.

I think you will like it better when you move the La Scalas behind the screen. Have you tried listening from the 2nd row...it should be similar to moving the speakers back.

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I think you will like it better when you move the La Scalas behind the screen. Have you tried listening from the 2nd row...it should be similar to moving the speakers back.

I have but the front seats block some of the sound.  I too think it will sound better behind the screen.  Wakejunkie wants to get started on the rebuild but he's still questioning his ability at this point since his short term memory is pretty fried from the strokes.  Makes it difficult to remember what step he's on in the process, measuring & cutting etc.  He doesn't want to waste the lumber that I purchased because of errors.

 

I still think it's user error. ;)

There is no doubt that is a possibility.  I was going to recalibrate last night but with a family of 6, it's not very quiet in the home plus we had a lightning storm outside.  I really want to do it when it's just me in the house.

 

When I calibrate, I will document my exact steps to see if I did it correctly.

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I think you will like it better when you move the La Scalas behind the screen. Have you tried listening from the 2nd row...it should be similar to moving the speakers back.

I have but the front seats block some of the sound.  I too think it will sound better behind the screen.  Wakejunkie wants to get started on the rebuild but he's still questioning his ability at this point since his short term memory is pretty fried from the strokes.  Makes it difficult to remember what step he's on in the process, measuring & cutting etc.  He doesn't want to waste the lumber that I purchased because of errors.

 

 

 

I still think it's user error. ;)

There is no doubt that is a possibility.  I was going to recalibrate last night but with a family of 6, it's not very quiet in the home plus we had a lightning storm outside.  I really want to do it when it's just me in the house.

 

When I calibrate, I will document my exact steps to see if I did it correctly.

 

 

agreed! I happened to have a short window of time where the family was out getting dinner. Make sure you mute your phone, turn off AC, fans, etc. Use a boom mic stand if you can (borrow one from church).

 

then just follow the diagram outlined on the link above.

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Before I calibrate, I do have some questions...

 

Audyssey first asks me to adjust the volume on the sub until it gets to 75db.  It currently is registering at 95db before it starts calibrating the speakers.  If I turn it down to 75db, it ends up being about 1/4 way up on the sub volume knob on the RSW-15.  I remember when I first got the Onkyo, I reduced the volume on the subs to 75db and after calibration, the subs were so low, it didn't even seem like they were on.  Definitely didn't sound right so I turned them up.

 

Should I turn the subs down to 75db, leave them at 95db or maybe try to do between at 85db?

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Make sure you mute your phone

Did that

 

turn off AC

Did that because the air vent is directly above the main LP.

 

Use a boom mic stand if you can (borrow one from church).

In the past, I've used my camera tripod and lean it up against the seat.  I can bring a boom mic home from church if it will make a difference.

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follow the instructions, set it to 75db. run through the process and verify that speaker distance measurements are accurate. if the distances are accurate, but the trim levels for the sub are not betwee -3dB and +3dB, rerun the setup with an incremental increase or decrease to the sub gain.. only a few dB at a time.

 

if the auto-calibration get's you between -3dB and +3dB for the sub, similar levels for the speakers, and accurate distance measurements you are GOLDEN. Don't touch the sub gain knob, adjust the trim level to suit your preference on any give movie.

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Before I calibrate, I do have some questions...

 

Audyssey first asks me to adjust the volume on the sub until it gets to 75db.  It currently is registering at 95db before it starts calibrating the speakers.  If I turn it down to 75db, it ends up being about 1/4 way up on the sub volume knob on the RSW-15.  I remember when I first got the Onkyo, I reduced the volume on the subs to 75db and after calibration, the subs were so low, it didn't even seem like they were on.  Definitely didn't sound right so I turned them up.

 

Should I turn the subs down to 75db, leave them at 95db or maybe try to do between at 85db?

I would do as Audyssey asks and then if you want more go into your AVR, and raise the bass levels until you like them.

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Svs originally told me to ignore that step about setting sub to 75db. I don't do it. Of course they have their own theory on how gain structure works on their amps. I'll text you later tonight youth. Can't type a ton at work on my phone.

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follow the instructions, set it to 75db. run through the process and verify that speaker distance measurements are accurate.

I have read that even if Audyssey shows inaccurate distances, to leave it asis since changing those distances will affect what Audyssey adjusted on purpose.

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follow the instructions, set it to 75db. run through the process and verify that speaker distance measurements are accurate.

I have read that even if Audyssey shows inaccurate distances, to leave it asis since changing those distances will affect what Audyssey adjusted on purpose.

 

 

partially correct. if everything is wrong, re-run until it's right. if only the sub is wrong, but within a few feet of accurate, leave it as is. but once you're confident in the automated measurements, what you've read is correct -- do not change the distance settings to compensate for sound, change the trim levels.

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