Nuther police shooting

[Gilbert]

 

Stupid decisions can get you killed.

 

Keith

Stupid decisions shouldn't get you killed.

 

Artto

 

 

True, but not all stupid decisions weigh the same.

[Max2]

Great. So what are we going to do about the so-called police force that has turned into a military operation in large cities to small communities all across the country who apparently have the right to shoot to kill unarmed citizens just because they run in fear of being killed? That's what the thread is really about. This is not a right or left or center issue, nor is it a race issue. My first recollection observing this change of policy in police enforcement began decades ago and has been escalating ever since. I've been complaining about it for decades as well. Just try and get rid of the bad ones. I dare you. I just hope we're not past the point of no return.

 

 

They all need cameras on their chest so we can expose the thugs getting what they deserve and possibly keeping the honest cops "honest".     I still think we are talking a 99% ratio here of what we already know, but I don't want to be that 1% and no one deserves to be.

[eth2]

Today, I met a young New York State Trooper in the course of a serious issue, He was respectful, intelligent, exercised discretion and wisdom far beyond his relatively young age. Renewed my faith in at least some police officers. Of course in New York, the State Police are the cream of the crop.

Edited February 14, 2015 by eth2

[Jeff Matthews]

 

The police should be trained and have available in every vehicle a rope that can be used to lasso perpetrators of crime. Instead of drawing weapons in a situation such as this one officer could simply call out 'calf rope' and the non-lethal apprehension could then take place, with the ensuing officers rubbing the criminals little dickie to calm him.

 

Keith

even a tranquilizing gun would have done the job - and put the man to sleep - it 's a gun , but it doesnt kill - I vote for the fact that police should all have one of these in the car for mentally distressed individuals that are erratic and hard to control-

 

 

There you go!  Darts with Ativan!  Makes perfect sense.  Seriously.

[Jeff Matthews]

Who needs desert camos in the city? But, the IMAGE value is priceless.

 

 

I never considered that, but you are right!

[Travis In Austin]

Are the police doing something new?

Just adding up what I can on wikipedia, deaths from police per year:

2012 321

2013 320

2014 593

Why was last year nearly twice as many?

Unfortunately, the data is unreliable because it isn't uniform and reporting isn't mandatory.

Even it the data was reliable, it would only tell half the story. It assumes that the police are not are not facing a growing number of public who are willing to threaten deadly force against law enforcement.

Here is just one article about the data, I have dozens more.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/dec/03/marc-morial/are-deaths-police-shootings-highest-20-years/

[T2K]

 

Who needs desert camos in the city? But, the IMAGE value is priceless.

 

 

I never considered that, but you are right!

 

 

The camo sends the subliminal message referencing Gun's N Roses 'Welcome to the Jungle'.

 

Keith

[hydro_pyro]

Let's stop prosecuting victimless crimes. Let's stop shooting family dogs and putting men in cages because they smoked a plant. Let's stop initiating acts of violence against peaceful citizens. Enough is enough.

[Paducah Home Theater]

No-knock raids disturb me the most. We've even got babies with half their face burnt off because a cop tossed a flash-bang in their crib. There's no excuse for that. It seems that these things are almost like a legalized execution. If you bust in somebody's house in the middle of the night unannounced, there is a good chance they will grab a gun. I wouldn't expect anything less. At that point of course the swat team can justify killing them. Sad thing is, sometimes they get the wrong house and this exact scenario goes down and an innocent person ends up dead.

[OO1]

Anyone remember the West Hollywood bank shootout? The police were outgunned. Departments all over the country have worked to make sure that a situation like that doesn't happen again. The escalation in armament and tactics are a response to the escalation in violent crime. If anyone wants someone to blame then blame criminals.

 

Keith

the man who was shot had no weapon in his hands , he was running away , he had no criminal record , no know incident , a family man who just could not communicate , where is it that you talk about criminals - when I look at the video , I see the thugs and they are the real criminals -

[Jeff Matthews]

Anyone remember the West Hollywood bank shootout? The police were outgunned. Departments all over the country have worked to make sure that a situation like that doesn't happen again. The escalation in armament and tactics are a response to the escalation in violent crime. If anyone wants someone to blame then blame criminals.

 

Keith

 

You are making the argument for a "zero tolerance" policy.  That all sounds good, in a John Wayne sort of way, but real citizens understand how flawed and unreasonable such a policy is.

[T2K]

 

Anyone remember the West Hollywood bank shootout? The police were outgunned. Departments all over the country have worked to make sure that a situation like that doesn't happen again. The escalation in armament and tactics are a response to the escalation in violent crime. If anyone wants someone to blame then blame criminals.

 

Keith

the man who was shot had no weapon in his hands , he was running away , he had no criminal record , no know incident , a family man who just could not communicate , where is it that you talk about criminals - when I look at the video , I see the thugs and they are the real criminals -

 

 

I see you are commenting without knowing just exactly what you are talking about.

 

Also, a rock is a weapon. He had already hit 2 officers with rocks.

 

Keith

[T2K]

 

Anyone remember the West Hollywood bank shootout? The police were outgunned. Departments all over the country have worked to make sure that a situation like that doesn't happen again. The escalation in armament and tactics are a response to the escalation in violent crime. If anyone wants someone to blame then blame criminals.

 

Keith

 

You are making the argument for a "zero tolerance" policy.  That all sounds good, in a John Wayne sort of way, but real citizens understand how flawed and unreasonable such a policy is.

 

 

Thanks for your analysis, but it is wrong. My comments, I'm not arguing, is that often times problems can be avoided by simply not confronting an officer in a hostile manner. Sometimes nothing works, like the Indian man here locally that was assaulted by a police officer for no reason other than not being able to speak English. That officer has been fired and charged with 3rd degree assault, as he should have been.

 

Keith

[OO1]

 

 

Anyone remember the West Hollywood bank shootout? The police were outgunned. Departments all over the country have worked to make sure that a situation like that doesn't happen again. The escalation in armament and tactics are a response to the escalation in violent crime. If anyone wants someone to blame then blame criminals.

 

Keith

 

You are making the argument for a "zero tolerance" policy.  That all sounds good, in a John Wayne sort of way, but real citizens understand how flawed and unreasonable such a policy is.

 

 

Thanks for your analysis, but it is wrong. My comments, I'm not arguing, is that often times problems can be avoided by simply not confronting an officer in a hostile manner. Sometimes nothing works, like the Indian man here locally that was assaulted by a police officer for no reason other than not being able to speak English. That officer has been fired and charged with 3rd degree assault, as he should have been.

 

Keith

 

by the way here is an article about this case -  3 police officers  have fired their weapons from the bunch of officers on site -

 

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2015/02/14/family-mexican-farm-worker-killed-by-police-in-washington-state-file-25m-claim/

Edited February 14, 2015 by Randyh

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

Anyone remember the West Hollywood bank shootout? The police were outgunned. Departments all over the country have worked to make sure that a situation like that doesn't happen again. The escalation in armament and tactics are a response to the escalation in violent crime. If anyone wants someone to blame then blame criminals.

 

Keith

 

You are making the argument for a "zero tolerance" policy.  That all sounds good, in a John Wayne sort of way, but real citizens understand how flawed and unreasonable such a policy is.

 

 

Thanks for your analysis, but it is wrong. My comments, I'm not arguing, is that often times problems can be avoided by simply not confronting an officer in a hostile manner. Sometimes nothing works, like the Indian man here locally that was assaulted by a police officer for no reason other than not being able to speak English. That officer has been fired and charged with 3rd degree assault, as he should have been.

 

Keith

 

 

For whatever reason, I took your first post to mean you were sympathetic to the officer who killed the rock-thrower because officers like him deal with very dangerous criminals once in a while.

[twistedcrankcammer]

I am old enough to remember a different time. While the Andy Griffith Show, Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, etc., portrayed idealized views of American life, the  important point is that they portrayed a view of America that was characterized by a high moral standard, traditional family values, and something for which to aspire, even if romanticized. What do we have today? Breaking Bad, Cops, and too any shows I  was embarrassed to watch with my teenager. Movie producers covet an "R" rating as they know without it attendance will suffer.

 

Shooting unarmed civilians, school shootings, children calling Family Services when they are disciplined, government blaming teachers for children who have no parental supervision or guidance to do homework, read, or engage in anything that does not involve mass carnage on a computer screen, are all part of the same macro issue. There is no moral compass that we can agree upon. Most anything is ok. 

 

We have come a long way in terms of basic issues of equality, but we have lost SO much in terms of basic standards of decency, responsibility and common morality. I am not a conservative, nor even a Republican, but I do miss the world of my childhood.

You should be a conservative or a Republican because it is the Left that is primarily responsible for ALL of the F'd up changes!

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

Are the police doing something new? We are seeing many stories of police shooting unarmed people over minor scuffles. If this is new, we need to understand why. Nothing much just happens without specific motivation or design. Did we redesign policing?

I think we did. And we are beginning to see some consequences that were intended and some unintended.

We turned the police into an army.

 

Bingo.

 

They are being trained to be more like a military force.  And behind them in the DHS, which appears to have begun operating at a local level.  Wasn't it a politician this past decade that remarked he would like a domestic force as powerful as the military?

 

I content they ARE a military force already. Examine the pictures published after any large police action. All you see are "camos" and machine guns, and armored cars (MRAP, etc). 

 

QUOTE

In a recently released report, “War Comes Home,” the American Civil Liberties Union (my employer) discovered that nearly 80% of all SWAT raids it reviewed between 2011 and 2012 were deployed to execute a search warrant.

 

Pause here a moment and consider that these violent home invasions are routinely used against people who are only suspected of a crime. Up-armored paramilitary teams now regularly bash down doors in search of evidence of a possible crime. In other words, police departments increasingly choose a tactic that often results in injury and property damage as its first option, not the one of last resort. In more than 60% of the raids the ACLU investigated, SWAT members rammed down doors in search of possible drugs, not to save a hostage, respond to a barricade situation, or neutralize an active shooter.

 

END QUOTE

 

No one has complained, so the process continues to move in this direction.

Exactly, the police have developed an US against THEM mentality that is across the board with the general public!

Roger

[Travis In Austin]

I am old enough to remember a different time. While the Andy Griffith Show, Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, etc., portrayed idealized views of American life, the important point is that they portrayed a view of America that was characterized by a high moral standard, traditional family values, and something for which to aspire, even if romanticized. What do we have today? Breaking Bad, Cops, and too any shows I was embarrassed to watch with my teenager. Movie producers covet an "R" rating as they know without it attendance will suffer.

Shooting unarmed civilians, school shootings, children calling Family Services when they are disciplined, government blaming teachers for children who have no parental supervision or guidance to do homework, read, or engage in anything that does not involve mass carnage on a computer screen, are all part of the same macro issue. There is no moral compass that we can agree upon. Most anything is ok.

We have come a long way in terms of basic issues of equality, but we have lost SO much in terms of basic standards of decency, responsibility and common morality. I am not a conservative, nor even a Republican, but I do miss the world of my childhood.

You should be a conservative or a Republican because it is the Left that is primarily responsible for ALL of the F'd up changes!

Roger

Fact checK.

Primarily vs all, which is it, primarily or all?

"ALL the changes." Which changes?

As far as police shootongs, one only need to look who wrote Graham v. Conner.

[OO1]

 

You should be a conservative or a Republican because it is the Left that is primarily responsible for ALL of the F'd up changes!

Roger

 

the 3 officers that shot the farm worker have been suspended pending review - they wont be allowed back on the street to do more shootings - that's for sure -

[twistedcrankcammer]

I am old enough to remember a different time. While the Andy Griffith Show, Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, etc., portrayed idealized views of American life, the important point is that they portrayed a view of America that was characterized by a high moral standard, traditional family values, and something for which to aspire, even if romanticized. What do we have today? Breaking Bad, Cops, and too any shows I was embarrassed to watch with my teenager. Movie producers covet an "R" rating as they know without it attendance will suffer.

Shooting unarmed civilians, school shootings, children calling Family Services when they are disciplined, government blaming teachers for children who have no parental supervision or guidance to do homework, read, or engage in anything that does not involve mass carnage on a computer screen, are all part of the same macro issue. There is no moral compass that we can agree upon. Most anything is ok.

We have come a long way in terms of basic issues of equality, but we have lost SO much in terms of basic standards of decency, responsibility and common morality. I am not a conservative, nor even a Republican, but I do miss the world of my childhood.

You should be a conservative or a Republican because it is the Left that is primarily responsible for ALL of the F'd up changes!

Roger

Fact checK.

Primarily vs all, which is it, primarily or all?

"ALL the changes." Which changes?

As far as police shootongs, one only need to look who wrote Graham v. Conner.

Earl spoke to missing the world of his childhood, an idealistic state that existed to some extent in the 50's. Who has changed that way of life? By definition alone as Conservativism staying with ststus quoe, it sure as heII isn't conservatives that have made the majority of negative changes. It is not conservativism that has brought gun ownership under fire, it is not conservatism that has invented the welfair system and created generations of those who expect handouts other than having a hard work ethic, it isn't conservatism to promote the killing of life through abortion, it is not conservatism that has promoted levels of pornography into our every day lives, it is not conservatism that has promoted homosexual rights and allowed for the existence of groups like NAMBLA Do I really need to go on here to make my point???

Roger

Edited February 15, 2015 by twistedcrankcammer