"off the record"

[Guest Steven1963]

 

I did not say that the mtg industry did not take advantage of the loosened fanny mae/ freddy mac/fha guidelines. It is well understood that the mtg industry is lacking in ethic. Still that industry could not underwrite loans for which the feds defined the lending guidelines. It was the feds that gave the mtg industry carte blanche and then failed to conduct any oversight until the bubble was beyond any hope of salvation. Barney Frank, et al........ felt that minorities could gain a financial toehold if they could get into the housing markets. It was a noble idea but like most gov't programs it was far too simplistic and way under scrutinized. BTW this same type of approach is once again gaining momentum at the federal level. Hope they do better this time.

 

You simply have no idea what you are talking about.

 

 

Mark,

 

I'm genuinely interested in your rebuttal to this since it was my understanding also that this was true.

[Guest Steven1963]

 

 

3. Restitution must be made. We attempted this with Indians, and made a small dent. We need to do better. Probably something with land.

 

I don't think, as an American, I could agree to pay restitution to the descendants of slaves anymore than I could expect to receive a check from England for the abuses of King George to my ancestors.

 

Me neither.

 

One of the troubles with this is that no one is guilty. You can't find a guilty person anywhere in the country. Not in business, not in politics, not in the population. Everyone's innocent! Indeed, this is the way perception works. We have no sense of "class guilt" that anyone is willing to accept. And yet, we do have the crime. No one is going to wear Nixon's guilt, for instance.

 

The source for any form of restitution has to be from the Federal Reserve. If they can use $3T to bail out bankers, both foreign and domestic, we can also use $3T to bail out the injured parties of the historical racism. I can't say it is cash payments, or land, or infrastructure, or what it really looks like. But, it can't be ZERO simply because no person will accept guilt. And, I am not speaking as the injured party, I am only speaking as the observer. You can't have massive crime and no restitution, and expect a good result.

 

As we speak, and as I am trying to explain the existing racism, there are political activists all over the South (primarily) trying to dream up new clever ways to disenfranchise blacks. So, we can't even begin to find solutions when so many people are still creating new problems. As we speak, 1200 AM radio stations across the nation are blurting out a non-stop propaganda campaign designed to denigrate blacks and lift whites to new levels of Guilt Free Virtue. As we speak, cops all over the country are looking for more opportunities today, right now, to harass blacks, deny their rights, embarrass them with their families, beat them, and if needed, shoot them. As we speak, businessmen all over the country are dreaming new schemes to lower their wages, prey on their lack of financial sophistication, and further reduce their wealth in ways they wouldn't apply to whites.

 

So, really, any kind of restitution talk is just hot air. We haven't ended the racism yet.

 

 

Do you assign no blame to the black community for their current plight?  Is it all the white conservatives fault?  I doubt this country will outgrow its racial bias within the next 50 years on its own and it is near impossible to legislate the issue.  Because you can't legislate how someone should feel about someone else.

[Guest Steven1963]

I'm not going to do all the homework here.

 

Google this: subprime target blacks

 

Begin reading anywhere you like.

 

 

As a rebuttal and to support what Oscar is saying and that I believe, here is a link to an article by the Boston Globe.  This would tend to lend credence as to why the subprime crisis affected more blacks. 

 

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/

 

Something tells me that the truth is somewhere in the middle and that both government and the banking industry had a hand in this, as I tend to believe the Globe when it says: "mortgage lenders didn't wake up one fine day deciding to junk long-held standards of creditworthiness in order to make ill-advised loans to unqualified borrowers."  If that was the case, the subprime crisis would have happened decades ago and multiple times over by now and banks would have eventually self-destructed.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Steven1963

[oscarsear]

I'm not going to do all the homework here.

 

Google this: subprime target blacks

 

Begin reading anywhere you like.

Do you know how Loan Officers make their living?  They gouge.  They gouge anyone and everyone.  They do not, they CAN NOT -  ask a prospective borrower what their race is and then modify the terms accordingly.  Name me one instance where a lender learned about the race of a borrower and then altered the loan terms in any manner because of their ethnicity.  They did not give white better terms. They did not seek out blacks to hammer with worse terms.  They did not care who they snookered.

 

AND..............  the borrowers all signed the for the loans.  AND................. every borrower had their 3 day right of recision.  Even after signing the loan documents they could have rescinded the loan within 3 days time........... stopped the loan w/o any penalty.

 

At the end of the day uninformed borrowers got the worst loans.  You want to infer that blacks were the most uninformed......... well you may well be correct.  But the term 'predatory' implies premeditation, targeting.  Is there a case of marketing to a black community where the loan originators met and said, "we've got a bunch of blacks here so let's hammer them"?

[oscarsear]

 

 

3. Restitution must be made. We attempted this with Indians, and made a small dent. We need to do better. Probably something with land.

 

I don't think, as an American, I could agree to pay restitution to the descendants of slaves anymore than I could expect to receive a check from England for the abuses of King George to my ancestors.

 

 

 

 

As we speak, and as I am trying to explain the existing racism, there are political activists all over the South (primarily) trying to dream up new clever ways to disenfranchise blacks. So, we can't even begin to find solutions when so many people are still creating new problems. As we speak, 1200 AM radio stations across the nation are blurting out a non-stop propaganda campaign designed to denigrate blacks and lift whites to new levels of Guilt Free Virtue. As we speak, cops all over the country are looking for more opportunities today, right now, to harass blacks, deny their rights, embarrass them with their families, beat them, and if needed, shoot them. As we speak, businessmen all over the country are dreaming new schemes to lower their wages, prey on their lack of financial sophistication, and further reduce their wealth in ways they wouldn't apply to whites.

 

 

 

This is a heady accusation.  If blacks have nothing what is there to take away from them?  Who are these racist conspirators?  Why are they so industriously trying to harm blacks?  This borderlines on hysteria.

[eth2]

Jim.

I am not going to weigh in on an argument that is far more complex than any of the posters have the time, or probably expertise, to put forward. In fact, I don't know that anyone has the expertise to devise a solution. Starting with Johnson's "Great Society" we have struggled with how to eradicate poverty, drugs, hunger... So far, no solutions seem to have emerged that I have seen.

But that is not why I am posting. I just want to say that you (Jim) have overcome tremendous obstacles and I am proud to know you as a fellow Forum member.

Edited February 19, 2015 by eth2

[Guest Steven1963]

 

 

 

It was a liberal congress that lowered lending standards and insisted that banks lend to minorities.

 

What will you accept as proof? Let me know.

 

You are conflating two very different issues. First, is the Community Reinvestment Act of the late 1970s. Second is the predation that occurred in the sub-prime lending craze of the 2005 era, when banks encouraged retail brokers to help borrowers pass the lending restrictions because all such fraudulent loans were being securitized and sold to a vast market hungry investors that the banks also defrauded by securing phoney ratings by the rating institutions.  Those are to distinctly different operations.

 

I did not say that the mtg industry did not take advantage of the loosened fanny mae/ freddy mac/fha guidelines.  It is well understood that the mtg industry is lacking in ethic.  Still that industry could not underwrite loans for which the feds defined the lending guidelines.  It was the feds that gave the mtg industry carte blanche and then failed to conduct any oversight until the bubble was beyond any hope of salvation.  Barney Frank, et al........ felt that minorities could gain a financial toehold if they could get into the housing markets.  It was a noble idea but like most gov't programs it was far too simplistic and way under scrutinized.   BTW this same type of approach is once again gaining momentum at the federal level.  Hope they do better this time.

 

 

You need to catch up a little bit on this issue.

 

First, please understand this isn't about ethics, it is about CRIME.

 

Quote

“Today’s settlement attests to the fact that fraud pervaded every level of the RMBS industry, including purportedly prime securities, which formed the basis of our filed complaint,” said U.S. Attorney Anne M. Tompkins for the Western District of North Carolina. “Even reputable institutions like Bank of America caved to the pernicious forces of greed and cut corners, putting profits ahead of their customers. As we deal with the aftermath of the financial meltdown and rebuild our economy, we will hold accountable firms that contributed to the economic crisis. Today’s settlement makes clear that my office will not sit idly while fraud occurs in our backyard.”

END QUOTE

 

Second, read this, which is only for Bank Of America.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/bank-america-pay-1665-billion-historic-justice-department-settlement-financial-fraud-leading

 

 

 

Personally, I see this as a sham-trial and here is why: 1. $16.5 billion in fines was a drop in the bucket to how much they made on the deals.  Especially when you consider the bail outs they received.  It's laughable. 2. No criminal indictments. Even though they said the decision did not absolve any of the employees of criminal wrongdoing, I would bet my house nobody is going to jail over this. Certainly nobody at the top of the company.

 

A circus trial.  The government needed a fall guy without any fingers pointing to them (Community Re-investment Act) and Bank of America was the fall guy.  But in the whole scheme of things, they were given the equivalent of a slap on the wrist. The public bought it.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Steven1963

[Jim]

mdeneen,

 

I have skipped from pages, what I will say is this.

 

You say things are rigged, and they are. Guess what?

 

I am in the real estate industry and property preservation industry. Do you know how I get work? I apply to government agencies to become a listing broker or property manager. Do you know what it says right in their applications? I do.

 

If you are Black or a minority you get taken 1st, then the white gets taken if their is enough work for that area. Please don't tell me about my "white privelage" as right in our face the government says on their sites the blacks and minorities get picked 1st in order to fill the equality gap.

 

In order of acceptance-

 

1.Blacks and minorities,and minorities for this part are people with disabilities

 

2.Women owned companies and women of minority status

 

3.Military

 

4. Whites

 

 

 

 

And as for the loans, it not only targeted blacks, it targeted everyone that couldn't afford to put money down on subprime because they made the money on the loans in the 1st several years a person was able to do loans. I know this because I also had my mortgage license but gave it up.  Loans were given to people that had a credit score as low as 500 and the loanms were given up to 106% ltv of the property. Then when these loans close they were immediately sold as CMO's to investors so they could purchase them like junk bonds. MORE RISK/MORE REWARD. When they pooled these loians together they averaged 100 or so to make the CMO like a small mutual fund. If 3 loans defaulted, they broke the cmo up again and took enough bad loans to create another cmo that was even more of a risk,and paid more of a return and so on. That came from the government. And the redlining was with everyone that didn't have the money to put down for a loan.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Jim

[Jim]

Jim.

I am not going to weigh in on an argument that is far more complex than any of the posters have the time, or probably expertise, to put forward. In fact, I don't know that anyone has the expertise to devise a solution. Starting with Johnson's "Great Society" we have struggled with how to eradicate poverty, drugs, hunger... So far, no solutions seem to have emerged that I have seen.

But that is not why I am posting. I just want to say that you (Jim) have overcome tremendous obstacles and I am proud to know you as a follow Forum member.

 

 

Earl,

 

I appreciate the words of encouragement.

 

I will say though on my end that I don't think I've done anything that anyone else couldn't do. My point has always been I did what most would do in my position and accepted the hand dealt me and just played it the best way I could which was to press forward.  That's why I stated "what makes me any different from blacks or anyone else". My meaning of that was I am no better than anyone else and everyone is my equal. We just choose different paths to go down, but I do feel I am above those that choose not to do what the masses do, which is to work and struggle to make a better life for themselves and their families.

 

Even with the levels in society, you have the choice to either stay in your level or fight to get to teh next level. I am by no means where I wanted to be, but I am above where I was. I also understand how easy it is to go back to where I was and that is my driving force. To make sure my kids don't struggle as I did, or to put them through what I went through.

[Jim]

 

 

 

 

Since I am the only one arguing against 5 others, I'll have to pick my arguments carefully and avoid repeats and simple rhetoric.

 

My argument is based on the following principles:

 

1. The USA has practiced institutional racism for its entire history, right up to this moment. Policy, law and social structure has conspired to steal from the black race to enrich the white race and it continues into today.

 

2. Historically, all groups subject to this kind of persecution and exploitation do worse than their exploiters in economic stats of achievement.

 

3. Our education system today continues to deny anything approaching an accurate history of the exploitation of the black race in America. 

 

4. There is nothing anthropologically inferior about blacks compared to whites.

 

5. The lack of economic achievement of blacks in the USA is a direct effect of the advantage created by the exploitive racism, and is not a reflection of an innate character flaw.

 

6. Blacks and other minorities are scapegoated by right wing politics through the use of massive propaganda machinery.

 

So what are your solutions to these problems?

 

Already posted.

 

 

So your solutions are to quit arresting black drug dealers, promote a black education system, and pay blacks reparations? Those are not solutions, but appeasements that will fail, or have already failed.

 

The solution is time. It is important to realize that the fastest growing segment of the middle class in our country is African Americans. It is also important to know that social change takes time. Much change has occurred, but more change needs to happen, so stay tuned.

 

Don,

 

Here, we go again, huh? I quit responding to you in other threads because you don't put forth an honest effort to read and understand my posts. So, I'll not waste time with you on this either, since there are other more honest posters.

 

Here's what I did say this morning regarding solutions:

 

1. Eliminate the racial strategy embedded in the WoD, and policing, and the justice system.

2. Education has to be owned by blacks for blacks. Learning the actual history is crucial to understanding your circumstance.

3. Restitution must be made. We attempted this with Indians, and made a small dent. We need to do better. Probably something with land.

 

 

1. Eliminate the racial strategy embedded in the WoD, and policing, and the justice system.

2. Education has to be owned by blacks for blacks. Learning the actual history is crucial to understanding your circumstance.

3. Restitution must be made. We attempted this with Indians, and made a small dent. We need to do better. Probably something with land.

 

 

 

Mark,

 

I am going to say this, I personally love history and the history of the human race. There is a study going on from NATGEO, the Adam and Eve study. What it is, if you haven't seen it or read about it, is a DNA Test to trace the human race back to "Adam and Eve" which most agree, is humanity came from Africa and 3 main tribes. The Eve tribe is the 1st tribe and the Adam tribe is the 3rd tribe.  So what that means is that our DNA all goes back to there. That means that we are all black at some point in our evolution, which I believe. Some of use can go back to Eve, some go back to Adam.

 

My point on this is as bad as history has been to blacks in the US, it's also been as bad for other cultures and "minorities". When I say I am equal and they are equal to me, I mean it. Skin tone is skin tone and can be explained scientifically as well as to why there are different skin tones which I'm sure you are aware of.

 

Reparations to a skin tone for what happened to them to me is done out of guilt and supresses that skin tones desire to better themselves. Saying it's the same as the American Indian is not the same, we wiped a whole skin tone out of existence practically. Taking another skin tone to better ease our existence even 100 years ago is wrong, but why do we have to pay for somehting our ancestors did,and why do we have to pay those ancestors for something we had nothing to do with?

 

I personally could not do harm to someone for no reason, but at the same time shouldn't be responsible for their ancestors pain, no matter how bad it was. I agree it should have never happened but don't feel bad for todays blacks and the plight of their people from even 50 years ago. It's inexcusable for that to happen, but oin order for us as a species to grow, we need to move on and look at how to better our species. That is the $64,000 question.

 

When the extreme left/right wings can put their differences aside and look at the issues at hand together, we can grow as people and won't have to feel sorry for a skin tones past.

 

Again as I stated earlier, I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one issue.

[Gilbert]

I am playing nice! Perhaps I missed his sarcasm?

 

I don't know about that, you through the finger at him first.

[artto]

Bring back the draft.

JJK

Got that right. But not just a "draft". Everyone serves. That will clear up the gang banger problem real fast and everyone will know how to fight, fire a weapon (and actually hit what they're shooting at), and will provide a real hands-on defense system for this country. FWIW, when this country was started, that's the way it used to be (except for women, American Indians and Blacks of course). But nowadays, why exclude them? That way everyone gets an education in self defense & discipline, and maybe even an "education" while they're at it.

 

And for the record, 30-40 years ago you would have NEVER heard me saying that. No, I'm not left-wing, or right-wing and as far away from the middle as I can get. LMAO

Edited February 19, 2015 by artto

[Woofers and Tweeters]

most whites, don't like seeing blacks as miserable and screwed up as they are.

[Jim]

Mark,

 

I see you are very educated, and I mean it as a compliment. I am not as educated as you on the books side, but on the street side and in the state I live in, which by the way is the most diverse in the country, I am very well educated.

 

While you bring up great points on things, you also aren't answering questions posted to you. And as you say in your posts, which show all these bad things happening, you post things that are geared towards your beliefs. And those things have happened, there's no denying it. But you aren't adding in the rest of the other cultures or denominations.

 

Could it be that these people "admitting they redlined blacks" have also redlined others? And could it be possible they admitted these things after the government needed scape goats? Could they have possibly admitted to things that would benefit them not having to have charges criminally bought against them, or charges that were downgraded?

 

I have worked with Wells Fargo, Chase, Bank of America, Fanie MAE, Freddy Mac, FHA,  and many others as a foreclosure and short sale listing agent, and have also worked as a loan officer as well. Loans aren't given with various interest rates based on color of skin,they are based on credit score and how much the loan officer wants to make. The lower the score of course the higher the rate, but interest rates are the same across the board. And all loans pay differently to the loan officers. Some pay in the front end, and some in the back end, and others still on both ends. So whether balck or white you can shop the same loan on the same person to several banks and get different rates based on payouts the laon officer wants. FHA is notorius for giving 2-4 points on the rear end of the loan and the client doesn't even see it or know it's there. Even in the "full disclosure" they are given it's still hidden. And FHA also charges fees on top of points. So for these bankers to say they targeted on color is outragious,it's done on commissions as well.

 

When no doc and stated loans were done, it was exactly that, a loan officer would ask questions "leading" them to the qualifying questions. And all the person had to say was yes. They would ask questioons like you make $50,000 annually don't you? Or you can afford to pay $1500.00 monthly can't you? As long as they had the minimum credit score they got the loan. How is it the loan officers fault? The person taking the loan knows the truth not the officer, and that person should have told the truth.And the three most dominant denominations Arabs, Hispanic, and Indians, with Asians following. Blacks were almost at the bottom of teh totem pole. You know what all the other denominations had in common? Large amoutns of cash on hand hidden under their mattresses. The blacks didn't. And you know who complained the most when the market tanked and they cpouldn't pay their bills? The blacks. The others said nothing.

 

The state I live in has some of the most stringent laws in place for minorites as we have the 2nd most influx of them within the Hispanic community just from Cuba alone, not to mention the Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, and several others. We also have a huge influx of people from India, and one of the most heavily traveled airports for immigrants coming into the US. We have rougher laws geared to help minorities than almost every state. So we as brokers need to know laws and what can and can't be done, and as a broker, I make sure there is no redlining of any sort. I couldn't control what happened to me as a stockbroker, but I can as a real estate broker as I am the one who's responsible. I studied my industry from all sides and know it inside and out. I know how the banks work and lend money, how they replenish that money, and how they work when dealing with loans. I know how the banks make mnoney on loans, how they make money on defaulted loans, how much money they have to have on hand for each foreclosure they have, and how they write them off on their books. And the scapegoats from these banks were doing what the government allowed them to do.

 

You are stating things based on columns written, or based on "INVESTIGATIONS DONE BY PEOPLE LEANING TO ONE SIDE".

 

My comments I have stated are based on real life experience with many different denominations in my field as a broker, loan officer, property management company, and a neighbor of these people. I am basing my comments on what I see, hear, and have to deal with on a personal and professional level daily.

 

My point also that I am stating on the loan officers targeting poor blacks is that these same blacks, other minorities and anyone else that was in the subprime market is this. They had no problem accepting these loans, but when they couldn't make payments any longer, they complained they were taken advantage of. And every one of them, knew going in that they didn't really qualify for a loan. So the easy way out was to blame someone else. And big brother government needs those same peoples votes, so what did they do? Get a scape goat. I am not saying those bankers were right, becuase they were wrong, but they were just playing the game they were put in.

 

I was a stockbroker prior to real estate, and it was the same thing there. When a client is making money, you are great.When they lose, it's your fault you misinformed them, took advantage of them, did trades they didn't know about. It's the same everywhere. And then the SEC steps in and beats up the broker to make it look like they have the public's back. But they don't.

 

I lost my license as a stockbroker due to working for a company that did an illegal private placement which they were trying to bring public. I worked there 2 months. The SEC stepped in and took every clients money and froze it. Then they took every brokers bank account and froze them. The Sec never gave the money back to the clients, they told them they were using it to facilitate the suit against the company and told the clients sue us we are the government. You know what was put in the papaers and the news?

 

SEC steps in and shuts down brokerage firm that was doing illegal transactions. And that report went out as truth, just like the reports these banks had put out.

 

Now I'm not saying the bankers aren't guilty, but the whole story isn't there. Blacks aren't the only ones that were targeted. If you look in Maryland, the areas they say were targeted are predominantly black, but they don't talk about the suburban or rural areas where there were whites and other denominations.

 

So even as you do "our homework" understand, book smarts and real life everyday street smarts are different things. When you are actively involved in it, you can laugh at the posted reports as they mean nothing except to make whoever is siding that way believe what they want you to believe.

 

Even your post on the global trading and economy and how it's going shows as you state yourself how certain things are witheld from us and other things are put there to give a false sence of security.

 

I may be wrong in the big picture as I don't see every states numbers, but I know from the 4 states I've lived in and the areas I lived in things are similar in urban areas in any state.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Jim

[Travis In Austin]

 

 

 

 

3. Restitution must be made. We attempted this with Indians, and made a small dent. We need to do better. Probably something with land.

 

I don't think, as an American, I could agree to pay restitution to the descendants of slaves anymore than I could expect to receive a check from England for the abuses of King George to my ancestors.

 

Me neither.

 

One of the troubles with this is that no one is guilty. You can't find a guilty person anywhere in the country. Not in business, not in politics, not in the population. Everyone's innocent! Indeed, this is the way perception works. We have no sense of "class guilt" that anyone is willing to accept. And yet, we do have the crime. No one is going to wear Nixon's guilt, for instance.

 

The source for any form of restitution has to be from the Federal Reserve. If they can use $3T to bail out bankers, both foreign and domestic, we can also use $3T to bail out the injured parties of the historical racism. I can't say it is cash payments, or land, or infrastructure, or what it really looks like. But, it can't be ZERO simply because no person will accept guilt. And, I am not speaking as the injured party, I am only speaking as the observer. You can't have massive crime and no restitution, and expect a good result.

 

As we speak, and as I am trying to explain the existing racism, there are political activists all over the South (primarily) trying to dream up new clever ways to disenfranchise blacks. So, we can't even begin to find solutions when so many people are still creating new problems. As we speak, 1200 AM radio stations across the nation are blurting out a non-stop propaganda campaign designed to denigrate blacks and lift whites to new levels of Guilt Free Virtue. As we speak, cops all over the country are looking for more opportunities today, right now, to harass blacks, deny their rights, embarrass them with their families, beat them, and if needed, shoot them. As we speak, businessmen all over the country are dreaming new schemes to lower their wages, prey on their lack of financial sophistication, and further reduce their wealth in ways they wouldn't apply to whites.

 

So, really, any kind of restitution talk is just hot air. We haven't ended the racism yet.

 

 

Do you assign no blame to the black community for their current plight?  Is it all the white conservatives fault?  I doubt this country will outgrow its racial bias within the next 50 years on its own and it is near impossible to legislate the issue.  Because you can't legislate how someone should feel about someone else.

 

When crimes are committed, why should the victims take any blame?

 

I don't think I have put all the blame on "white conservatives." I have said they are responsible for the propaganda, but the blame for the 500 years of exploitation belongs to the ruling class. And that class has only mild interest retail politics, their interest is money, property and wealth. They plot the strategies of economic oppression, racism and the like. They are not "conservatives" or "liberals" as such, just the establishment owners and decision makers. 

 

 

The barriers you speak of, I believe, do exist, in the form of institutional and environmental racism.  

 

Below, at the bottom, I have quoted an excerpt of an article on institutional racism by a professor at the University of Indiana School of Education, the full article can be found here:   http://diverseeducation.com/article/64583/

 

She indicates the research confirms what Mark indicated about hiring practices.   She asks questions in a way that most people don't think about.  The reason we don't think about them, according to her, and many others, is because of institutional racism, whether intentional or not.  We just don't pay attention to it because we are in the minority, at least I think that is the reason why.  But in looking at the questions she poses, and answering them honestly, it does highlight some areas of concern where maybe none was in our mindset's before.  She is careful to say it "may" be in indication of institutional racism, not that it exists.  

 

Redistricting is one form of institutional racism, it has occurred recently, and continues to occur.  The Supreme Court found that Texas had violated the Voting Rights Act of 1965 in and they were forced to redraw the lines.  A portion of that Act was invalidated last year and the Voting Rights Act is in a state of flux.  The Court continues to rule on a 5-4 idealogical split.  That everything is equal and hunky dory in the United States, even on an issue as fundamental as voting, simply isn't the case, it is pure fantasy.  There is a racial divide, disconnect, or whatever you want to call it.

 

Here is a FACT that everyone is going to have to come to grips with, liberal, conservative, Democrat or Republican.  Whites will become the minority of the population during the lifetime of most everyone here (estimates range from 2040 to 2044).  In Texas whites are already the minority, 45%.  It is effectively a Tea Party state currently (fact, not a political comment), however, at least one Hispanic congressional district was created after the last census, and by 2020 they are predicting major and fundamental shifts.  The other states where whites are in currently in the minority are California, New Mexico, and Hawaii.  States where the white population has fallen below 60% are Maryland, Georgia, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, New York, New Jersey, Mississippi and Louisiana.  Minority children are now the majority in the following ten states: California, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Mississippi, and Maryland.

 

FACT:  Minority children will be the MAJORITY in the ENTIRE US by 2019.  

 

My solution to the "problem," what ever that may be, is to invest in our children, of whatever color, religion, or economic background.  Your children, and most certainly your grandchildren, will be governed by by the majority (which will be non-white).  If it means cutting defense, cutting social security, cutting the pensions of senators and congress, raising taxes on estates, individuals and corporations I don't care what it is.  WIth two wars to pay for it is going to be extremely difficult, but it can be done if it is a priority.  If today's minorities perceive there is discrimination, racism, or injustice, it better get dealt with now because what "goes around, comes around."  

 

There is a solution to all of this and that is simply to just deal with, NOW, instead of saying it doesn't exist, or it was caused by prior generation(s), or ignoring it.  Global warming may, or may not, happen, but the eventual transition of whites out of the majority, and eventually out of political control, will happen.  It is matter of simple demographics.  "They" will also ultimately control on the issues of immigration, citizenship requirements, pathway to citizenship, whether there is a free and open border to the North and South.  The "we" and "them" and "those" can either start to evaporate now with a shift to WE are all in it together as "US."  Or not, and eventually instead of being on the outside like "them" today, your children and your grandchildren will be on the outside.  

 

"We The People"

 

 

 

BEGIN QUOTE

 

 

Interestingly, there is a large body of research that clearly suggests that folks tend to hire and rehire folks who tend to act and look exactly themselves. So, exactly what do those organizations mean when they report embracing, celebrating and hiring a racially diverse pool of applicants? Given the statistics about who is typically hired at most organizations — let’s say Fortune 500 companies — I would say that it does not mean much, other than those organizations might just have a structural racism problem, given their hiring practices.

How are the roots of structural and institutionalized racism formed? It’s subtle. It seems normal. It seems innocent. That is the way that institutionalized racism works; it is rooted in the core of one’s everyday existence yet it is easy to detect if we just look and assess.

1. If you live in the United States and you have never been around anyone or very few people of color, you may just be a part of a structurally racist system. [You might also claim that some of your best friends are, but if you have to count, then there is still a problem]
2. When buildings are erected in the name of someone and the someone is never a person of color, then you might be sending messages to everyone about folks who are powerful, smart and valued. That is how institutionalized racism works.
3. When pictures of presidents, board members, award-winning whomevers are hung, and they do not depict a demography that matches that of the state, city or the country, then your organization might have an institutional racism problem.
4. Look at the organizational structure to which you belong. If the organization is disproportionately White in all upper levels positions, and all of the folks in lower level positions are folks of color, then your organization may have an institutionalized racism problem.
5. Take a look at the hires in your own department. If it is all White, then you may just have an institutional racism problem. In addition, if the department has hired one person of color, and claims or believes that diversity goals have been met, you still have a problem.
6. When you and the administration can name the one or two folks of color who are routinely asked to reside on every committee in your organization, then you might have an institutionalized racism problem. [bTW, folks of color can name the one or two “usual suspects” in their organization.]
7.  If those same folks who serve are always the same ones — the “usual suspects” — you might ask why? Often times, the “usual suspects” are chosen to serve because there are few folks of color in the organization, yet sometimes, the “usual suspects” are chosen because administrators are most comfortable with some people of color.  Everyone has a unique biography, consciousness and reaction to oppression. In fact, those “biographies,” one’s consciousness, and or dispositionality, can resonate with those in power. In other words, the “usual suspects” will often receive nominal gratuitous rewards — appointments to menial positions, important hiring committees and some even receive “awards” for keeping their mouths shut. So yes, you may have still have an institutional racism problem.
8. Take a look at who receives highly honored awards in your organizations … and ask why they receive them? [For instance, regarding institutions of higher education, look at endowed chairs, chancellor’s professors, even teaching awards]. You may have an institutionalized racism problem if there are few or no folks of color in the pool. Also note that if the award is granted for something diversity related, people of color tend to receive them. Again, see number 4 and ask whether the institution is rewarding the often accommodating “usual suspects.” Again, this may be an indication of a problem with institutionalized racism.
9. When you are constantly looking for the “right fit,” and the “right fit” tends to always look like the rest of the folks that you have hired already, then you just might have an institutional racism problem.
10. When given a chance to hire someone of color, but instead someone from your hiring committee or upper-level administration chooses to make a phone call to someone that they have known, and again, they tend to “fit” and look exactly like the majority of the institution, then your organization might have an institutionalized racism problem.

Institutionalized racism occurs in a number of spaces and organizations. While I have made reference to employees, please know that students throughout the P-20 pipeline are the victims of institutionalized racism. Take a look at who is considered to be gifted and talented. Who is typically awarded advanced placement status? Who is most often referred to special education? Who is disproportionately expelled and suspended for minor infractions (if we must refer to an eye roll as an infraction. Sometimes I don’t know how I made it through high school given the number of eye rolls delivered on a daily basis.)

Again, since racism is so deeply embedded in our culture, we cannot assume that those who benefit from a powerful system of privilege built on race will somehow learn to see or even want to see inequity and institutionalized systems of racism overnight. Yet, what messages do we send to younger human beings when everyone who resides in the neighborhood, attends school and other events, goes to the grocery store, or even attends worship service (which is by the way, the most segregated day of the week) is the same. Harrowing as it might seem (at least I think so), never exposing young folks to difference — any kind of difference — perpetuates the madness of institutionalized racism. However, if we think about it, and we truly want to end racism, then the first step is to recognize that we have a problem.

Robin L. Hughes is an associate professor in higher education student affairs in the School of Education at Indiana University. She focuses on issues of race and sports in education and in society.

END QUOTE

[oscarsear]

 

 

I'm not going to do all the homework here.

 

Google this: subprime target blacks

 

Begin reading anywhere you like.

Do you know how Loan Officers make their living?  They gouge.  They gouge anyone and everyone.  They do not, they CAN NOT -  ask a prospective borrower what their race is and then modify the terms accordingly.  Name me one instance where a lender learned about the race of a borrower and then altered the loan terms in any manner because of their ethnicity.  They did not give white better terms. They did not seek out blacks to hammer with worse terms.  They did not care who they snookered.

 

AND..............  the borrowers all signed the for the loans.  AND................. every borrower had their 3 day right of recision.  Even after signing the loan documents they could have rescinded the loan within 3 days time........... stopped the loan w/o any penalty.

 

At the end of the day uninformed borrowers got the worst loans.  You want to infer that blacks were the most uninformed......... well you may well be correct.  But the term 'predatory' implies premeditation, targeting.  Is there a case of marketing to a black community where the loan originators met and said, "we've got a bunch of blacks here so let's hammer them"?

 

Yes, indeed, predatory does mean targeting and premeditation.

 

EXAMPLE 1 - Targeting

Ex-loan officer claims Wells Fargo targeted black communities for shoddy loans

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/former-wells-fargo-loan-officer-testifies-in-baltimore-mortgage-lawsuit/2012/06/12/gJQA6EGtXV_story.html

 

EXAMPLE 2 - Premeditation 

Former Chase Banker Admits His Bank Pushed Minorities Into Subprime Mortgage Loans

One of the most pernicious practices in which the nation’ biggest banks engaged during the lead up to the financial crisis was pushing minority borrowers into subprime loans, even when many of them qualified for prime loans. Wells Fargo had perhaps the most horrifying practices in this department, calling the subprime loans that they pushed in poor, black neighborhoods “ghetto loans.”   http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/12/01/379332/former-banker-subprime-pushed/

 

EXAMPLE 3 - Targeting and Premeditation

Bank Accused of Pushing Mortgage Deals on Blacks

As she describes it, Beth Jacobson and her fellow loan officers at Wells Fargo Bank “rode the stagecoach from hell” for a decade, systematically singling out blacks in Baltimore and suburban Maryland for high-interest subprime mortgages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/us/07baltimore.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

Well, there's three. If I do ALL your homework all the time, you'll lose self respect.

 

I can't begin to imagine how so many people here become so totally clueless about what is going on, and yet claim to be such total experts.

 

The mtg industry is not revered for its ethics.  What is odd about these events is that the banks in question are still open for business and still offering home loans.  If they were guilty of the statements offered they'd be closed down.  Give a lender an inch and they will take 10 miles.  This is especially true for independent brokerages.  The one lady testified that she alone earned $700K in one year doing these subprime loans.  Guess what her bosses made?  So, is the industry any different today?  No not really.  No loan officer is required to give you the best terms for your credit rating and various qualifications.  They still do their utmost to gouge every borrower for as much as they feel they can.  They work on commission.... the more they gouge the more they make.  The more the loan officers make, the more their bosses make.  If the feds want that ended.......... and I fully agree it should end....... then regulate the industry better.  Title insurance is another racket altogether and it is even more entrenched.

 

The feds opened the door to these subprime loans so that under qualified borrowers could obtain financing.  Lower income borrowers were who the feds had in mind.  The mtg industry was handing a money making bonanza and left to run with it.  Do you feel that the mtg industry has any scruples to this minute?  Nope they don't.  Obama just let the health insurance industry write the guts of the ACA.  Health costs go down as promised - or up?  Did the coverage get better or worse?  

 

Did these people predate on blacks?  Put them in jail if they did.  Any loan officer who wrote loans for whites with favorable rates and intentionally wrote loans for blacks that were less favorable because of skin color should be in prison.  I will say that the same loan officer would scalp them all, his own mother and probably his own kids too.  I do not hold loan officers in high regard.

 

Will iterate that every borrower interacted with the lending process regardless of race or credit standing.  Every borrower made their own choices and decisions.  Home lending is an industry that merits intense regulation and every borrower has got to that for themselves then, as now.  I wish the feds wold clamp down on many things........ and this is one of them.  Do keep in mind that if kept to truly qualified borrowers that blacks would again find the assignment less than attractive not because of their race but because of their qualifications.  High risk loans means higher fees.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

 

It was a liberal congress that lowered lending standards and insisted that banks lend to minorities.

 

What will you accept as proof? Let me know.

 

You are conflating two very different issues. First, is the Community Reinvestment Act of the late 1970s. Second is the predation that occurred in the sub-prime lending craze of the 2005 era, when banks encouraged retail brokers to help borrowers pass the lending restrictions because all such fraudulent loans were being securitized and sold to a vast market hungry investors that the banks also defrauded by securing phoney ratings by the rating institutions.  Those are to distinctly different operations.

 

I did not say that the mtg industry did not take advantage of the loosened fanny mae/ freddy mac/fha guidelines.  It is well understood that the mtg industry is lacking in ethic.  Still that industry could not underwrite loans for which the feds defined the lending guidelines.  It was the feds that gave the mtg industry carte blanche and then failed to conduct any oversight until the bubble was beyond any hope of salvation.  Barney Frank, et al........ felt that minorities could gain a financial toehold if they could get into the housing markets.  It was a noble idea but like most gov't programs it was far too simplistic and way under scrutinized.   BTW this same type of approach is once again gaining momentum at the federal level.  Hope they do better this time.

 

 

You need to catch up a little bit on this issue.

 

First, please understand this isn't about ethics, it is about CRIME.

 

Quote

“Today’s settlement attests to the fact that fraud pervaded every level of the RMBS industry, including purportedly prime securities, which formed the basis of our filed complaint,” said U.S. Attorney Anne M. Tompkins for the Western District of North Carolina. “Even reputable institutions like Bank of America caved to the pernicious forces of greed and cut corners, putting profits ahead of their customers. As we deal with the aftermath of the financial meltdown and rebuild our economy, we will hold accountable firms that contributed to the economic crisis. Today’s settlement makes clear that my office will not sit idly while fraud occurs in our backyard.”

END QUOTE

 

Second, read this, which is only for Bank Of America.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/bank-america-pay-1665-billion-historic-justice-department-settlement-financial-fraud-leading

 

 

Mark, you are a one-dimensional thinker.  

 

You present it as if black loan applicants could not be criminals if their lenders were criminals, too.  Have you never heard of conspiracy?

 

How about this?

 

Mark:  Hey, Jeff, I have a guy who will buy loans from me.  If you need some money, I can lend it to you.

 

Jeff:  Sure, I need a loan!  But my credit sort of.... sucks.

 

Mark:  Whoa!!!  Hold on there, Jeff.  Let it never be heard by others' ears what you just said!  Look.  Just fill out here that you make $X and sign.  I don't care if you're lying or not... wink, wink.  I'm gonna make $3,500 and wash my hands of it anyway.

 

Jeff:  Cool!  You get your money, and I get mine!

 

This was, indeed, how it worked.  Sad, but true.  They even called them "no doc" loans.  Remember that?  National commercials saying,"Call us for fast-closing, no doc loans!"  

 

It was brazen, and yes, the borrowers were lying, too!