"off the record"

[CECAA850]

Fact is more whites are on welfare by number than blacks.

 

By numbers or percentage?

[oldtimer]

When I say they run sports, I mean they are the ones getting paid by the ceos. They are the ones m,aking millions. We aren't.

Once again (because people learn through repetition) the percentage of people making good money playing sports is very low.  Yet you keep generalizing "they.":

[oldtimer]

 

Fact is more whites are on welfare by number than blacks.

 

By numbers or percentage?

 

Numbers for sure.  I doubt percentage.

[Jim]

And my comment on why are blacks different means they aren't different. They choose to live the way they do, JUST LIKE YOU AND I CHOOSE TO LIVE THE WAY WE DO.

 

Again, oldtiimer, read my comments on how I was raised. Why am I not living off the government? Do I have a silver spoon in my mouth? Did I get any breaks? NO, I CHOSE TO CHANGE MY SITUATION. I'm not special nor claim to be. I did what my inner self told me what to do. I am no better than anyone else in this world, and I am not owed anything. The only thing any of us are owed is from ourselves,and that's to be able to better ourselves. Again, what makes them different? Why aren't the Asians crying they are owed? Are the Japanese people still complaining here in America that were put in camps in world war 2? Are the Irish complaining that were slaves also here? Are any American Indians still complaining about being wiped out?

[oldtimer]

What I am saying to you is that blacks in America have a unique history which is incomparable to other countries who also once held black slaves. When those countries peacefully ended slavery blacks were allowed to integrate starting way back then. Blacks in America were not only held back they got hammered. That cannot be ignored or set aside. It does impact what we have today. It does not render any solutions, but it is a huge factor.

 

True and yet not true.  The British West Indies are full of freed ancestors of slaves but they have not exactly had great economic opportunities either.  Bob Marley started a genre all about it.

[oldtimer]

Yes Jim, American Indians do remember their past and do have issues with it.  My main thrust is why do you insist on saying "they" as a generality when there is plenty of "them" of any race, and as I said many fit the stereotype but many more do not.

[Jim]

So however you treat the least of your brothers, so you treat me. Right?  Race has nothing to do with it.  Fact is more whites are on welfare by number than blacks.

 

 

You should do more research on things, those same whites that are on welfare are also working full time jobs. Overall in America, more people are on welfare of some sort, not including seniors than people who aren't. 153 million people are on some sort of government assistance and 150 milliojn aren't. I may be off by a few numbers but not much. It just happens those whites that outnumber the blacks are also working full timne jobs of some type. And you also have other denominations of people working full time jobs who are getting help. Have you lived in these urban areas I mentioned growing up?

 

As for me treating my brothers,I treat everyone the same, Black ,White,Spanish,Asian, Indian. If you are to lazy to work, you don'tr deserve to have a Mercedes, $700.00 purse, newest Iphone or anything else anyone else that busts their asses for can't afford. And I shouldn't have to pay for them to have those items.

[oldtimer]

Who says the Asians aren't crying what they are owed?  They come to America (Canada, south America USA) to get it.

[Jim]

 

When I say they run sports, I mean they are the ones getting paid by the ceos. They are the ones m,aking millions. We aren't.

Once again (because people learn through repetition) the percentage of people making good money playing sports is very low.  Yet you keep generalizing "they.":

 

 

 

"They" are the people that are playing the sport,l not their whole race. I in no way stated that in any of my comments that a whole race is making money. You read into what you wanted to read into. Next I'll be a racist.

[Jim]

 

 

 

Just to add top Oscarsear- Every powerhouse of a country throughout history had slaves, not to say it was or is right. But they did. Spain with Columbus just prior to us. Columbus killed 1,000's upon 1,000's of people for not becoming his faith. Are those people still complaining?

Slavery certainly has existed in many countries and in many cultures, and for more than just blacks.  America does hold one uniquely distinct history in regard to slaves.  We're the only country that disemboweled itself with a massive war to resolve the issue.  That civil war seeded tons of racial resentment that did not exist in England or Spain or anywhere else.  Blacks in America got a double dose of inhumanity.  1st with slavery and 2ndly with Jim Crow laws that'll really make anyone who studies them in detail puke.  In the early 60's little blacks girls were escorted to public white schools and they were taunted with the most vile death threats not from the other students but from their parents.  No.........  blacks in America got a pretty raw deal.  At the same time I believe the American Indian suffered worse in other ways.  

 

 

 

Yes, but are they being segregated today? Are they not allowed to go to the same schools and use the same education system? Are they not allowed to start their own companies? Are we still to be held responsible for what happened in the past? When are they going to be held responsible for their own actions? Or are we to continue to look at the plight of the poor race and continue to give to them?

 

Jim.........  I am not suggesting any solutions.   If I had any suggestions I'd offer them up.  It is a mess.  What I am saying to you is that blacks in America have a unique history which is incomparable to other countries who also once held black slaves.  When those countries peacefully ended slavery blacks were allowed to integrate starting way back then.  Blacks in America were not only held back they got hammered.  That cannot be ignored or set aside.  It does impact what we have today.  It does not render any solutions, but it is a huge factor.

 

 

 

I agree 150%, but my contention is, they can be the ones to move their people forward, not us. At what point do we say enough? That's my whole point. We can continue to live in the past as we are doing, or we can ,move forward as a species. It's that simple

[oldtimer]

Who says the Asians aren't crying what they are owed?  They come to America (Canada, south America USA) to get it.

 

 

So however you treat the least of your brothers, so you treat me. Right?  Race has nothing to do with it.  Fact is more whites are on welfare by number than blacks.

 

 

You should do more research on things, those same whites that are on welfare are also working full time jobs. Overall in America, more people are on welfare of some sort, not including seniors than people who aren't. 153 million people are on some sort of government assistance and 150 milliojn aren't. I may be off by a few numbers but not much. It just happens those whites that outnumber the blacks are also working full timne jobs of some type. And you also have other denominations of people working full time jobs who are getting help. Have you lived in these urban areas I mentioned growing up?

 

As for me treating my brothers,I treat everyone the same, Black ,White,Spanish,Asian, Indian. If you are to lazy to work, you don'tr deserve to have a Mercedes, $700.00 purse, newest Iphone or anything else anyone else that busts their asses for can't afford. And I shouldn't have to pay for them to have those items.

 

BS.  And no blacks have jobs they all live on welfare.  All whites have jobs but are on welfare.  Do you also have a bridge in new York to selll me?

[Jim]

Yes Jim, American Indians do remember their past and do have issues with it.  My main thrust is why do you insist on saying "they" as a generality when there is plenty of "them" of any race, and as I said many fit the stereotype but many more do not.

 

I am not saying different, again read my comments.  There is good and bad in every denomination,I am proof of that on how I grew up. But I don't hold anyone else responsible for what I did when I was able to change things, nor do I blame them for not being able to reach the goals I wanted. Nor did I choose top live off the government. That's all I'm saying.  We as a race overall have done nothing but destroy each other and will continue to do so until we can "accept" the past and move on and learn from it for a better future.

[oldtimer]

 

 

When I say they run sports, I mean they are the ones getting paid by the ceos. They are the ones m,aking millions. We aren't.

Once again (because people learn through repetition) the percentage of people making good money playing sports is very low.  Yet you keep generalizing "they.":

 

 

 

"They" are the people that are playing the sport,l not their whole race. I in no way stated that in any of my comments that a whole race is making money. You read into what you wanted to read into. Next I'll be a racist.

 

BS again.  You said they run sports.  You said in the same manner they make millions.  You refer to blacks as a people.  Now you want to point at me for bringing what you yourself said up.  I am not accusing you of being a racist.  We aren't even talking along those lines.

[Jim]

 

Who says the Asians aren't crying what they are owed?  They come to America (Canada, south America USA) to get it.

 

 

So however you treat the least of your brothers, so you treat me. Right?  Race has nothing to do with it.  Fact is more whites are on welfare by number than blacks.

 

 

You should do more research on things, those same whites that are on welfare are also working full time jobs. Overall in America, more people are on welfare of some sort, not including seniors than people who aren't. 153 million people are on some sort of government assistance and 150 milliojn aren't. I may be off by a few numbers but not much. It just happens those whites that outnumber the blacks are also working full timne jobs of some type. And you also have other denominations of people working full time jobs who are getting help. Have you lived in these urban areas I mentioned growing up?

 

As for me treating my brothers,I treat everyone the same, Black ,White,Spanish,Asian, Indian. If you are to lazy to work, you don'tr deserve to have a Mercedes, $700.00 purse, newest Iphone or anything else anyone else that busts their asses for can't afford. And I shouldn't have to pay for them to have those items.

 

BS.  And no blacks have jobs they all live on welfare.  All whites have jobs but are on welfare.  Do you also have a bridge in new York to selll me?

 

 

 

Look up the numbers and you will see what I am talking about. Numbers were done not even 2 months ago. More people are on government assistance than not.  And of those mostly all of them have full time jobs when the numbers were done. Where do I say blacks don't work?

[oldtimer]

You should do more research on things, those same whites that are on welfare are also working full time jobs.

 

Right there.  You implied that whites on welfare have jobs, blacks do not.  Maybe I need to do research, and maybe you need to learn the language in order to express yourself clearly so that you are not misunderstood.  There was a post a page or two ago about literacy as I recall.

[Jim]

 

mdeneen,

 

Just to add to a few things, growing up as white trash, I did have the police target me because of my parents. I did have jobs not given to me due to my family. I did have loans not given to me due to where I lived. So I went through the same things blacks and other minorities go through. I had to scratch and claw my way to where I am now.

 

I also had my parents taking clothes from other people instead of buying me clothing. Do you know what it's like to have to wear a girls shirt while in the 8th grade? Do you know what it's like to have to wear a pair of sneakers that have the whole side ripped on them becuase they refused to pay more than $5.00 for a pair of sneakers for a whole school year?

 

I had a full scholarship for high school and didn't get to go, you know why? Because my parents refused the $100.00 sign up fee due. I was a straight A student from Kindergarten up until I left high school.So I had to go to a public high school. I also moved out when I was 16 and had to work a full time job while going to school. I''ve been working since I'm 9 years old when I had a paper route that I delivered 120 papers daily. I made on average $120.00 a week from that and had to give my parents $100.00 weekly for rent. At 12 I worked in a laundry mat folding clothes and was paid 0.50c for every 2 loads of laundry I folded. I worked 4 days a week and weekends and paid my parents $100.00 weekly from that job. At 14, I worked in a restaurant and lied saying I was 16 in order to work the weekends and Fridays from 4-2. I made on average $200.00 a week then, I had to pay my parents $150.00 a week.

 

Why am I different from anyone else? I could have easily chosen to live off the government. I could have easily blamed my parents for my life but didn't. Why are blacks different?

 

You have filled several long posts with lots of anecdotes now. I surely get your point of personal bigotry, and really any more anecdotes are not needed as any argument to me. My argument was not to deny your anecdotes, bad experiences, and life history. You know, we all have our burdens, don't we? My argument is about the subjugation, enslavement, and oppression of a whole race of people brought to the country for economic gain. First, that such oppression, racism and exploitation has never ended, and second, that such peoples all over the world are pressed into similar life circumstances as our black population as a result of generations of racism and oppression.

 

I can't determine what you know about our long historical oppression of these people, but it seems to be very little. I'd highly recommend a deeper education in the matter, which I think most people would find enlightening to some degree. All over the country we are seeing the effects of two very obvious strategies. The first is the justice system's racist war through drug laws and zero tolerance policing, the other is the economic war which has never ended. Whether it is the Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis, or the Irish at the hands of the British, or the Zapatistas at the hands of the Mexicans, the outcomes for these exploited people are similar to what we see with blacks in this country.

 

Yes, individually, anyone can accomplish anything. But, that does not correlate to everyone can accomplish everything. The number and kind and severity of the general disadvantages we have heaped upon these people, and continue to this day, is simply an evil that eventually will catch up to us, if it hasn't already.

 

 

I've never said anything about what happened wasn't wrong, but to continue boo-hooing and giving excuses is wrong. My question was how long do we have to continue giving before they need to act for themselves? And you started with your retort which I followed with my retort, but you still haven't answered the question. And again, I am not attacking you as a person, I am attacking the assumption we need to continue to give to them without them having to be responsible.

 

When I said what makes me diffeerent from them, I mean I'm no worse or better than them, I just choose to do the same thign most here do, and that's work.

 

If someone needs assistance and truly needs it, I have no issue. But if the person is flaunting how much they make from the government and then say they are owed it, that's a different story. And when you live in those same places I lived in and see those people daily, you will have a different outlook.

[oldtimer]

When I said what makes me diffeerent from them, I mean I'm no worse or better than them

 

Case in point.  Instead of asking an open ended question which isn't clear to others, you could have made a straight statement.  "I am no different from them."  Then explain why this is true.

[Jim]

 

You should do more research on things, those same whites that are on welfare are also working full time jobs.

 

Right there.  You implied that whites on welfare have jobs, blacks do not.  Maybe I need to do research, and maybe you need to learn the language in order to express yourself clearly so that you are not misunderstood.  There was a post a page or two ago about literacy as I recall.

 

 

 

It's nice to see you follow the same patterns on your posts with other people as with me. I almost thought you were singling me out for a second.

 

As per the whites vs blacks on welfare, there are more whites but they are more in the mid west, the blacks are on the west and east coasts. Those numbers also show the blacks are more in urban areas in those states, but the numbers also showed the whites and other denominations were working a full time job like a McD'S or a lower incomed job, those same people were averaging a little above minimum wage. They weren't getting their rent paid, they were getting food stamps. The urban area people were getting rent, utlity subsidies, medical, cell phones, and food stamps paid to them. And not all are black.

 

I stated above my parents milked the system also, and I chose to change my lifestyle and my whole thing has been why can't they? That's it.

 

I await your much more educated than I reply.

[Jim]

The Other Side of the Coin

 

On one side, it is said that blacks just aren't achieving enough compared to whites. And yet, we rarely take into account how "white privilege" rules the social and economic circles of the country. The white class was the historic owner class, and blacks were purchased to service them. The whites developed hundreds of institutions socially, politically, and economically by which they can exercise and maintain dominance. I hope no one thinks they ever wanted to give up their dominant position?

 

University boards of directors, policy making think tanks, country clubs and social registers, Museum and Arts boards, boards of directors of corporations, elite fraternal orders, political office, political party apparatus. These are just a few of the interlinked and interlocked dominant structures which have been used since forever to establish networked dominant structure in the ruling social class. One is educated in the elite schools, has introductions to these elite institutions, learns the ways. mores, rules, and habits of the elite class and advances from position to position as their interest directs, but always with a "hand up" from the tutors and senior members. Multiply that by thousands over many generations and that is how an elite class maintains dominance and control.

 

How easy it is then to criticize those outside this well managed structure for "not achieving!"

 

 

I don't disagree with what you show, I disagree that they shouldn't keep allowing for excuses not to better themselves.

 

Take a look at some of our big scientists today, Neil Degrassi, is he white? Look at some of his fellow scientists, they aren't white either. Look at todays president, is he totally white? He is the one who could have opened his mouth up and said see me, if I can do it so can you. There are many welathy black ceo's and what do they all have in common? Hard work and no excuse for where they came from. They can be good role models, but it won't happen because the black community isn't ready for it.

[Jim]

 

When I said what makes me diffeerent from them, I mean I'm no worse or better than them

 

Case in point.  Instead of asking an open ended question which isn't clear to others, you could have made a straight statement.  "I am no different from them."  Then explain why this is true.

 

 

I agree I could have maybe said it diferently, but I did say that in my prior comments towards mdeneen.