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T2K

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Suppose you sit down to a game of Monopoly with 5 others. They are given 5X as much starting cash, and some property cards with houses. You are given none. You lose the same and they laugh at you and wonder why you did so poorly explaining to you that, "The rules were the same for everyone! You must be defective!"
 

 

Suppose that happened, and the 5 others are going to play another game.  Are you going to play?  Be expected to play under the same rules as before unless you can convince them to play under another set.  That's life!

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Guest Steven1963

 

 

Denial

I can only conclude from reading many of these posts that many people are uneducated, or in denial, with respect to the longstanding racism in the USA. Our public education system doesn't teach it of course, because text books are designed and approved by the dominating race. If your only education was "school" you've missed half of our history- the negative half.

Racist policies are not something of the past. They are still in place today. And the only people who don't understand that are those whose families haven't experienced "driving while black" or employment discrimination.

The black race has been actively "managed" into a deep poverty. The collective assets of the black race are a tiny fraction now of the white race. The political power is under constant attack at the voting booth.

Racial resentment has become a very useful political tool. It leverages the lack of education about racism, and seeks to create an even deeper divide by establishing the popular rhetoric that Virtue is the essential difference between the races.

All the information is available to the intellectually curious. Anyone can learn the history and effects of our racist policies with a little study, a little time, and some effort. The reason few people choose to do it is because it will upset their political beliefs which depend on this resentment.

 

Denial rubs both ways. There has been a war on poverty by the left for as long as I can remember. Yet the plight of the black man could be said to have worsened - black unemployment under the current federal administration has increased. Still it appears a segment of the black population still believes they are being helped by electing democrats. It really does boil down to victimization. If I allow myself to submit to being a victim of circumstances and I don't make course changes, then perhaps I've earned my position in life?

 

Nobody should rely on anybody else to get ahead in life. If you choose to adopt ebonics as your language, wear your pants down around your knees, skip school, have babies and perpetuate the welfare class then so be it. But if you want to get ahead stop playing into those societal traps and fix it for yourself and your posterity. The recipe for success is well known and available to everyone, so why do the things I just mentioned when you know it isn't going to work?  

 

I don't think you should be allowed to cry about your plight when you refuse to change your course. Is it going to be easy? Heck no. Cops are going to pull you over for being black while driving for a long, long time. And nobody is going to change that stereotype but the ones being pulled over.  Societies have been trying to destroy the Jews for thousands of years but the Jews refuse to lie down.  Why should it be any different for blacks?

 

 

Suppose you sit down to a game of Monopoly with 5 others. They are given 5X as much starting cash, and some property cards with houses. You are given none. You lose the same and they laugh at you and wonder why you did so poorly explaining to you that, "The rules were the same for everyone! You must be defective!"

 

 

 

I understand your point and sympathize with the position most blacks start out in.  My point is that they have a choice: play that game and probably lose, or play that game and work not to win, but to start to change the odds for their posterity. Nobody is going to sit down at that table and expect victory with those odds.  But we are not talking about a game where one person walks away the victor after a couple of hours. We are talking about life where your posterity deserves a better life than you had. Don't you want that for your kids? Teach them how the game is stacked against them and then teach them how to work to overcome the odds. 

 

That isn't happening and it hasn't happened for decades.  It's as if they sat down at that game, looked at the layout and said "fine, but I get to complain and wallow in my sorrow and you have to pay me and my chil'ren for generations to come. Agreed?"

Edited by Steven1963
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Devils advocate.

 

"According to the racial profiling crowd, the war on drugs immediately became a war on minorities....

Between 1976 and 1994, 64 percent of the homicide victims in drug turf wars were black, according to a Heritage Foundation analysis of FBI data. Sixty-seven percent of known perpetrators were also black. Likewise, some 60 percent of victims and perpetrators in drug-induced fatal brawls are black. These figures match the roughly 60 percent of drug offenders in state prison who are black. Unless you believe that white traffickers are less violent than black traffickers, the arrest, conviction, and imprisonment rate for blacks on drug charges appears consistent with the level of drug activity in the black population....

The notion that there are lots of heavy-duty white dealers sneaking by undetected contradicts the street experience of just about every narcotics cop you will ever talk to—though such anecdotal evidence, of course, would fail to convince the ACLU, convinced as it is of the blinding racism that afflicts most officers.... The cops go where the deals are. When white club owners, along with Israelis and Russians, still dominated the Ecstasy trade, that's whom the cops were arresting. Recently, however, big shipments have been going to minority neighborhoods; subsequent arrests will reflect crime intelligence, not racism."

2001 - Heather MacDonald, JD gstar.gifgstar.gifgstar.gif

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Guest Steven1963

Devils advocate for the opposite side.  Too long to copy and paste but an interesting article supporting Marks claims HERE

 

My take-away from that is fairly simplistic. If you don't want to go to jail, don't do $hit that is illegal.  The writer does not argue that the black community isn't breaking drug laws, but that they are being focused more so for breaking drug laws.  I fail to see how a portion of society that is disadvantaged gains anything by putting themselves in a position to be even more disadvantaged.

 

Again, this comes back to responsibility for ones-self.  Or in this case perhaps, ones-race.  Change the things that aren't working for you, your kids and their kids.  Yes, it is going to take time and the work is hard and perhaps you won't even realize the gains for yourself but perhaps for your kids - you give them a better chance.  But what alternative?  Continue to accept your role as an oppressed society and complain about it?

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mdeneen,

 

If you know anything about history in big cities then you will know what I am talking about. 1977-1981 I lived in Miami, before the Cubans ran everything there, when it was Hatians that ran the area. I was 1 of 3 white kids in my school. The other 2? My brother and sister who were younger than me. And you know what I got daily? An asskicking because I was white. 1973-1977 and then 1981-2001 I lived in Jersey City. Do you know the history there? Newark blacks back in the late 1960's to 1970 walked from Newark to the border of Jersey City burning down the towns on the way. Do you know why?

 

Did your generation or my generation bring said slaves over here? Did we tell them they couldn't change their own futures? Did we tell them they couldn't better themselves? Did we make them quit school, become druggies, pimps, or anything else?

 

Did you personally grow up in a large city surrounded by minorities? I call it like I see it and grew up in it.

 

History is what it is................the past. keep making excuses for the past, or keep refusing to help squash what happened and help push them to becoming better people.

 

Did you live in a city where 80% of the people of people living there were impoverished? I did and was one of theose people. I had parents who were drug addicts and died from heroin and aids, my parents lived off of welfare as well. You know what that did to me? It made me want to better myself and swear to myself I'd never live that way. I had my father throw me up against a wall at 6 months old because I had a solied diaper and was crying. Had both my legs broken, an arm, and my skull fractured. I did not use anything that I went through as an excuse. It was a motivator,that was it. And before I get called a racist, my wife is Dominican. I am Dutch German Irish and Spanish.

 

And if we are going by history, the blacks sold themselves to the whites. The tribal leaders sold them.I know they were also kidnapped.

 

Also, I'm Irish mix, look at what happened to the Irish in the late 1800's early 1900's. They were enslaved also. What did they do? THEY WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF TO GET AWAY FROM WHAT THEY WERE STEREOTYPED AS.

 

I'm not attacking you personally, but I do take exception to what you are saying. Blacks have said numerous times they wanted to be left alone in their own neighborhoods and businesses, so the redlining although true is also due to themselves.

 

All the abpove you state is also true,but it's not as bad as you say it is fgor them. They run all sports and make millions upon millions of dollars to play a game.

 

There is no excuse for what happened in the past, but enough is enough. How long can you beat a dead horse? When is it tiime for them to act on their own?

I thought that only white people are racist.....

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Guest Steven1963

"As recently as 2006 the largest bankers in the country invented a means to target and steal what little wealth they had accumulated through illegal home lending scams."

 

And nobody went to jail for those illegal home lending scams.  Ironic considering the black community overwhelmingly voted into the presidency a black man with the hope he would help lift them up.  But instead, with a wink and a nod, and a public slap on the wrist, he allowed those bankers to keep their ill-gotten gains and their livelihood. 

 

Do I have to explain to you the reaction of the black community?  They re-elected him 4 years later!  These aren't individual decisions by black people - they are making bad decision after bad decision as a community in a world that is, I admit, stacked against them!

 

They allow Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to be their 'representatives'...they re-elect a man that clearly does not have their best interests at heart. Twice. They do illegal activities and get thrown in jail and then complain about the white/black ratio in the prisons. It just seems the list of bad decisions is endless and that somehow the white community is responsible for all of it.

Edited by Steven1963
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I have lots of intelligent comments to make here but there are few of you hear intelligent enuff to understand them. :)

 

Keith

 

Edited for addition of smiley. You're welcome Steven.

Edited by T2K
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Guest Steven1963

I have lots of intelligent comments to make here but there are few of you hear intelligent enuff to understand them.

 

Keith

 

Well that was a wonderful contribution.  I suppose during your intellectual travels you didn't happen upon a useful phrase uttered by your mother?  "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all."

 

Have a good day. I bow to your intellectual superiority.

 

Oh, and 'hear' should have been 'here.'

Edited by Steven1963
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I have lots of intelligent comments to make here but there are few of you hear intelligent enuff to understand them.

 

Keith

 

Well that was a wonderful contribution.  I suppose during your intellectual travels you didn't happen upon a useful phrase uttered by your mother?  "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all."

 

Have a good day. I bow to your intellectual superiority.

 

Oh, and 'hear' should have been 'here.'

 

 

 

play nice boyz, play nice, or I'll have to take you to the wood shed.

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Guest Steven1963

 

 

I have lots of intelligent comments to make here but there are few of you hear intelligent enuff to understand them.

 

Keith

 

Well that was a wonderful contribution.  I suppose during your intellectual travels you didn't happen upon a useful phrase uttered by your mother?  "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all."

 

Have a good day. I bow to your intellectual superiority.

 

Oh, and 'hear' should have been 'here.'

 

 

 

play nice boyz, play nice, or I'll have to take you to the wood shed.

 

 

I am playing nice!  Perhaps I missed his sarcasm?

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Since I am the only one arguing against 5 others, I'll have to pick my arguments carefully and avoid repeats and simple rhetoric.

 

My argument is based on the following principles:

 

1. The USA has practiced institutional racism for its entire history, right up to this moment. Policy, law and social structure has conspired to steal from the black race to enrich the white race and it continues into today.

 

2. Historically, all groups subject to this kind of persecution and exploitation do worse than their exploiters in economic stats of achievement.

 

3. Our education system today continues to deny anything approaching an accurate history of the exploitation of the black race in America. 

 

4. There is nothing anthropologically inferior about blacks compared to whites.

 

5. The lack of economic achievement of blacks in the USA is a direct effect of the advantage created by the exploitive racism, and is not a reflection of an innate character flaw.

 

6. Blacks and other minorities are scapegoated by right wing politics through the use of massive propaganda machinery.

 

So what are your solutions to these problems?

 

Already posted.

 

 

So your solutions are to quit arresting black drug dealers, promote a black education system, and pay blacks reparations? Those are not solutions, but appeasements that will fail, or have already failed.

 

The solution is time. It is important to realize that the fastest growing segment of the middle class in our country is African Americans. It is also important to know that social change takes time. Much change has occurred, but more change needs to happen, so stay tuned.

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Mark.......  You are as myopic on these issues as you do accuse others.  Banks did not predate on blacks.  It was a liberal congress that lowered lending standards and insisted that banks lend to minorities.  No bank would dare deny a black person a mtg if there is any chance they qualify.  There are many successful blacks who have demonstrated that the systems in place can and do work.  Many posts' back I offered the name of Dr. Ben Carsen and wondered why he is not routinely touted by Al Sharpton and the entire black community.  Yet blacks who have excelled via the orthodox systems are not revered by mainstream black America.  They are vilified as being "Oreos", black on the outside and white in the inside. Why?  Why are the successful black leaders not on the daily pedestals for blacks?

 

You have consistently wailed that blacks are victims up until this very moment.  But today any black with any serious proof of racial discrimination can find legal remedies and obtain judgments.  Much of what you contend seems fairly exaggerated.  I have asked as have others: How to make it better?  How can blacks become motivated, reset, unwound, whatever............?  Your answer is basically 'fix it'.  Please give us specifics.  

 

It is a tragedy to have this population wasted.  Generation after generation after generation wallowing in self pity instead of working to 'overcome'.  If what you say is true we'd have millions of adequately educated blacks because nearly all of todays blacks have had access to free basic education.  All they need to do is study.  There'd be millions of work ready, articulate, intelligent blacks unemployed because of rampant discrimination - if we're to believe you.  But that is not the case........ is it?  Can you explain the black high school drop out rate, the black single parenting conundrum, the cultural catastrophe blacks not only suffer from but are actually making worse?

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Guest Steven1963
Banks did not predate on blacks. It was a liberal congress that lowered lending standards and insisted that banks lend to minorities.

 

I had forgotten about that.  I believe Barney Frank spearheaded this effort as it was he on the committees that pushed this program onto the banks.

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It was a liberal congress that lowered lending standards and insisted that banks lend to minorities.

 

What will you accept as proof? Let me know.

 

You are conflating two very different issues. First, is the Community Reinvestment Act of the late 1970s. Second is the predation that occurred in the sub-prime lending craze of the 2005 era, when banks encouraged retail brokers to help borrowers pass the lending restrictions because all such fraudulent loans were being securitized and sold to a vast market hungry investors that the banks also defrauded by securing phoney ratings by the rating institutions.  Those are to distinctly different operations.

 

I did not say that the mtg industry did not take advantage of the loosened fanny mae/ freddy mac/fha guidelines.  It is well understood that the mtg industry is lacking in ethic.  Still that industry could not underwrite loans for which the feds defined the lending guidelines.  It was the feds that gave the mtg industry carte blanche and then failed to conduct any oversight until the bubble was beyond any hope of salvation.  Barney Frank, et al........ felt that minorities could gain a financial toehold if they could get into the housing markets.  It was a noble idea but like most gov't programs it was far too simplistic and way under scrutinized.   BTW this same type of approach is once again gaining momentum at the federal level.  Hope they do better this time.

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What is the racial strategy in our justice system?  Can you name any authority where it is written that blacks are selectively sought out for special treatment?

 

Agreed black history needs to be properly taught in our schools.  So does that of the Amerindian.

 

I can name 5 direct ancestors who died fighting to end slavery.  Can I obtain restitution for their personal sacrifices and the loses their families suffered because of their premature deaths?  I know for certain that I'd be personally far wealthier had they lived.

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Guest Steven1963
3. Restitution must be made. We attempted this with Indians, and made a small dent. We need to do better. Probably something with land.

 

I don't think, as an American, I could agree to pay restitution to the descendants of slaves anymore than I could expect to receive a check from England for the abuses of King George to my ancestors.

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