beeker Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Our future is either to run out of supplies and die in our own waste, or get more. ....or change our lifestyle. But in all reality the environment pressures will force lifestyle change at some point. Americans believe that consumption and materialism brings us maximal joy. Someday we'll learn that isn't the case, but that gets into philosophy and religion. In the longer term our sun is supposed to turn into a Red Giant, so that'll be interesting to live with all that extra heat. I think it would make sense to find another habitat before that happens... hmmmm nice...sounds like the answer to the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) ....or change our lifestyle. If that happens it will be through blood and violence. It isn't just Americans. There are billions of Chinese and Indians just getting a taste of the "good life," and you are now going to tell them the party is over? Good luck with that. I am just thankful there are those among us willing to do what it takes to sustain us. Until this thread I had no idea how many people actually believed in "sustainability." It's nonsense, a far greater threat than any of my "fantasies" about the resources of the universe. At least I can prove those answers exist. Dave Edited April 7, 2015 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Sustainability already exists...just not for our huge population. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Sustainability already exists...just not for our huge population Sustainability is possible for a static population. Good luck with that. Evolution seems to abhor that. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 You're suggesting we can survive better on Planet X, than we can here. Don't you think you need to know something about X before running off to it? Like your "religion" connection, which is incomprehensible to me, I just read this one and went "WTF?" What is it we don't know that we need to, pray tell? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Very simple, IMHO, Mark. To most people it means "We can just keep doing this forever..." Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) I don't often talk about and certainly don't try to explicitly define "sustainability", but I would say the core of the magical idea is that the resources used are replenished at a rate equal to or faster than the consumption rate. I guess it's a bit of a perpetual motion machine in concept, but I don't think we need to talk about an explicitly closed system since we get sun energy and the like for "free". Edited April 9, 2015 by DrWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) ....or change our lifestyle.If that happens it will be through blood and violence. It isn't just Americans. There are billions of Chinese and Indians just getting a taste of the "good life," and you are now going to tell them the party is over? Good luck with that.That's the power / problem of the media, propaganda, marketing, etc...The joy of those people is going down, but they think it's because they're not getting enough of the system. Suffering in silence and striving for an empty ideal.... Edited April 9, 2015 by DrWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 I guess it's a bit of a perpetual motion machine in concept, Not a "bit like," identical. All the free energy from the sun you can get will not replace consumable resources and even if technology could eventually manage that it would not be before a massive breakdown in in the economy, civilization in general, and the bloodbath and chaos that would follow. Only a planned, orderly, and SOON recognition of the need to use the resources so readily available and begin to learn how to thrive off world can minimize the disruption. And I mean "minimize," as I feel a certain amount will happen unless we suddenly realize the gravity of the situation. I say getting these resources is "easy," but it is still a HUGE project even though the technology is already available. I'd like to think that we will wake up soon, but the "hopey/changey" reliance so prevalent around me makes me doubt. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 "and even if technology could..." I don't believe in the technology god, or the religion that believes technology is the cure to all ailments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 "There is no possible way that 'resources' will be created in the type and quantity as they are used, right?" With the population and its behavior today I would agree. You're keen to point out that the population size can change....and I totally agree with that. However, human behaviors change with their environment too. Americans will continue to be massive consumers until it becomes too expensive. There are plenty of small communities around the world that replenish their consumption. Some are more science lab looking, and others are tribal communities. Those models don't work for massive populations, but they still exist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 I don't believe in the technology god, or the religion that believes technology is the cure to all ailments... On this we are in violent agreement. I certainly believe in technology I can SEE. And we have the technology to greatly reduce the coming resource crisis. In fact, we could greatly improve the living conditions and lives of billions as well as radically slow the loss of what little is left of this once verdant planet if we act very soon. The migration to space is long term and irrelevant to me, an issue for my descendants. But accessing the infinite resources of the solar system is something that will begin in my lifetime and that first "trillionaire" made in space prophesied by Neil deGrasse Tyson will happen in 20 years or so. And more will follow. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) There are plenty of small communities around the world that replenish their consumption Papua New Guinea. Everyone is wanting to live that way! The grubs and sago bead diet is awesome and keeps the weight off. Dave Edited April 9, 2015 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 "[The human race] has absolutely no significance." That is your religious/philosophical perspective, but is certainly not universally held. I have a hard time believing you accept the full implications of that perspective. Any semblance of morality for instance would go out the window. Music and art and love and companionship etc would also be rejected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Only a planned, orderly, and SOON recognition of the need to use the resources so readily available and begin to learn how to thrive off world can minimize the disruption. Dave Where's the motivation for this? I never meet anyone telling me they can't wait to leave for Mars. Where can all this motivation be hiding? Soccer moms? Businessmen? Retired folks? The Chinese? The Muslims? The homeless? I don't see it, I can't find it, I can't imagine where it is hiding, all this desire and motivation to leave earth. Where is it? The people on the Mars manifest certainly want to leave....Heck, one of them claims it'd even be a return home. You could include myself in those wanting to explore....But it's certainly not out of a sense of urgency or need for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 There are plenty of small communities around the world that replenish their consumption Papua New Guinea. Everyone is wanting to live that way! The grubs and sago bead diet is awesome and keeps the weight off. Dave Hey,I did say it comes with lifestyle changes At least they don't have AVs ruining their life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Where's the motivation for this? I never meet anyone telling me they can't wait to leave for Mars. Where can all this motivation be hiding? Soccer moms? Businessmen? Retired folks? The Chinese? The Muslims? The homeless? I don't see it, I can't find it, I can't imagine where it is hiding, all this desire and motivation to leave earth. While it's hard to see the relevance of your question as my statement you quoted said nothing about leaving for anywhere, I'll respond with a more relevant question: If polled just before midnight on 14 April, 1912, how many of Titanic's passengers would have voted to get into a lifeboat in the dark, cold Atlantic as opposed to continuing to sip their drinks in the brilliant light, warm ship? A tiny fraction of those aboard knew what had to be done. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 The question is, why would anyone today want to leave earth, except for adventure and excitement? You, of all people, must be familiar with the concept of "profit." Why did the Europeans go through hell to get to the New World? To spread the Gospel??? Where are the masses of people crying to leave? They're no underlying motivation to leave earth. The crew of Titanic could not convince most to get into lifeboats until the ship was listing so badly it became obvious even to idiots. By the time it was obvious it was too late for most of the starboard lifeboats. Why it surprises you that people don't recognize that the planet is gradually listing to port (euphemistically) surprises me as you have made many comments on human nature in the past. One might mention the frog in the pot of cold water on the stove. Turn on the heat and the frog will never respond until it is dead. And the NEWS? Seriously? Since when did YOU ever expect to hear any "news" on the news, much less truth. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Any imminent disaster you are suggesting for earth, could be suggested for the next planet too. Maybe I should mention, given the current state of your analytics and commentary, that I ignored this statement entirely as complete gibberish. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 "Why go?" ...sheesh! Because it's there! That was a good enough reason for the first attempts to climb Mount Everest... why not Mars or anywhere else? As a nice plus... look at the benefits of all the technology that came out of the Apollo program. Who knows what innovations could come of such attempts of exploration beyond our planet? I say let's find out. "Sustainability" is a BS term. Adaptability is what we are after and adapt is what we do and have done all along. Face it... your existence is proof of a 100% survival success rate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.