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Anybody here on the Mars manifest?


Mallette
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What it says in essence is "too early to panic and race off to Mars." And, that's rather obvious I think. Take another look in 100 years or so, and see how things are doing.

 

The inability to share resources fairly here on Earth, will not be solved by going to Mars for more. That should be obvious too. But, as long as we are only talking about private money, I have no reason to argue not to blow money on whatever they want to do.

 

So you think hope IS a methodology?  Mars/Lunar colonization and utilization of near earth resources are just some of the options that a prudent people will develop.  Agree with them on fusion...unlimited cheap energy could give us another 100 years by making the economically unviable viable and providing unlimited water. 

 

If you think I am suggesting Mars is the only answer for the near future you are way off base.  Space is logically the only LONG term solution, but it's just one piece of the puzzle.  Saving those aluminum cans is another, solar, fusion...we need to not miss anything as we have waited far too long and the spiral has begun. 

 

Actually, I find it odd that you suddenly are for capitalist exploitation of the wealth of space.  At one time in the past you seemed to suggest you supported public expenditures on such beneficial projects.  Be nice to have a bigger slice of the benefits than we are likely to get from the first trillionaire Dr. Tyson says will be made in space rather than "trickle down."

 

Dave

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No Mark, I live a relatively safe life, I think at my age it would be a pretty good gamble, and an unparalleled adventure. We all have to depart this world at some time, this seems preferable to many other ways I can think of.... ;)

 

THAT's the right stuff!

 

Dave

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John Glenn came back alive!

 

Others did not.  New Worlds aren't for the faint of heart. 

 

If you just mean "come back" at all, then bear in mind very, very few of those coming to the New World ever saw the comforts of home again.  Entire colonies simply disappeared.  Mortality was extremely high. 

 

Those survivors probably contributed a lot to the DNA that made this country "exceptional" for so long.  Time to do it again, IMHO.

 

Nobody sits on top of a couple of million pounds of explosives thinking "No sweat."  Those with the right stuff are the few who are coldly objective, and wildly adventurous. 

 

Dave

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New World settlers were indentured servants looking for a new life

 

Red herring.  Indenturing took hold AFTER settlements were established.   The pilgrims and puritans weren't indentured, and the Jamestown bunch was mostly high born and artisan types which is why they had such a hard time.  And, yes, there was a huge issue with economic upheaval and a shortage of ways to make a living in post civil war Britain.  Many sought indenturing in Britain itself simply to eat.  Resources, wool and many other things, were in very short supply.

 

It had everything to do with a shortage of resources and an excess of labor.  Now that you mention it, some form of indenturing will take place as people seek the wealth and opportunity of off world colonies.  Makes sense.  Entrepreneurs will need labor, and there will be those who don't want just a job but want to remain in the new colonies to seek their own fortunes and carve out a homestead.  The Mayflower bunch pooled what they had, and borrowed (to some extent indenturing themselves) from merchants to fund their venture. 

 

There will probably be some of the other reasons, religious and political, as the technology becomes somewhat less expensive. 

 

You may make every effort to somehow suggest the reasons for seeking out equality, new opportunity, fleeing from oppression, the desire for wealth, are different now than in the past but that's pretty futile. 

 

Dave

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Many sought indenturing in Britain itself simply to eat. Resources, wool and many other things, were in very short supply.
Many Irish were actually sold into slavery (by the British), even though it went on the books as being indentured.

 

I have family who lived in the Carolinas, who traveled maybe 100 miles to start a new life. They never were able to go back, as their lives were so hard just making ends meet.

 

Bruce

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Those are the best arguments as they aren't debatable except with that hopey/changey thing.  However, Mars One has nothing to do with that.  It, and other dreams, are about exploration, adventure, and the human spirit.  Planetary Resources and others seeking to access the wealth of space don't have saving the human race in their mission statements either. 

 

The list of reasons to explore and settle space would be endless and those are simply a couple of them.  The list of reasons to sit here in our overfilled cat box is a lot shorter.

 

Dave

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Those are the best arguments as they aren't debatable except with that hopey/changey thing.  However, Mars One has nothing to do with that.  It, and other dreams, are about exploration, adventure, and the human spirit.  Planetary Resources and others seeking to access the wealth of space don't have saving the human race in their mission statements either. 

 

The list of reasons to explore and settle space would be endless and those are simply a couple of them.  The list of reasons to sit here in our overfilled cat box is a lot shorter.

 

Dave

 

 

Dave, you have to rent and watch "Interstellar".  It just came out to Redbox in the last couple days.  Without spoiling the movie, it's basically about astronauts finding another world to live in as ours is being dying.  I thought about your passion for the subject matter several times while watching the movie.  It should be at the absolute top of your must see list.  I've heard that the science is fairly spot on as well.  I'd like your opinion on this though.

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Regardless what anybody says in this titled debate this has got to happen for humanity to continue. There will be many failures and with that will come knowledge. From there will be success. And many years from today we will have been developed into something we could not begin to comprehend today.

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Regardless what anybody says in this titled debate this has got to happen for humanity to continue. There will be many failures and with that will come knowledge. From there will be success. And many years from today we will have been developed into something we could not begin to comprehend today.

 

 

You guys really need to see Interstellar.

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Dave, you have to rent and watch "Interstellar". It just came out to Redbox in the last couple days. Without spoiling the movie, it's basically about astronauts finding another world to live in as ours is being dying. I thought about your passion for the subject matter several times while watching the movie. It should be at the absolute top of your must see list. I've heard that the science is fairly spot on as well. I'd like your opinion on this though.

 

I haven't seen it yet but have read many articles on the science involved, which the creators went to extremes to get right even to the point that some new thoughts came from the scientists engaged in fact checking.  I am really looking forward to it.

 

Beeker, it is strange to me to my core that it is a "debate."  The mandate for humanity to move into space is self-evident to many of us.  When I saw the nascent human race shown as that fetus in 2001, A Space Odyssey shiver went through my body in full realization that nature created us as a space-faring culture and we are just now almost full term and ready to be "born."  Sure, one can debate it, but I find nature to be extremely conservative in evolution.  If we weren't meant to move into space why did she endow us with the means to do so?  No matter how hard you look you will find no species evolve anything unnecessary for survival.

 

I think our ability to travel in space is NECESSARY for our survival and that is why we have the capability. 

 

We WILL use it, either by necessity (which is how nature works anyway) or through collective wisdom.

 

Dave

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I have a difficult time watching sci-fi. Interstellar might be alright and probably have to watch it soon. Previews did look good.

 

 

I didn't read the entire thread but what I did read was very good and I will eventually take the time.

 

 

This topic is difficult on many levels. Its impossible to wrap the mind around the reality from what ever direction we look at it. Step 1 and a huge fact we must all understand is from the time we are born into this world we begin to die. But as we get older we become more efficient in using what each of us have. To reach the next closest galaxy to our milky way would take at minimum 4 average human generations. Mars is simply the most logical "next frontier" for any type of useful scientific data in any considerable testing ground beyond the moon being the next furthest range to gain access to what ability humanity has before going further. And from there objectivity is absolutely aimless. Yes this can be looked at as catastrophic, nonetheless it will happen.

 

Theory for goal beyond Mars: At age 14-23 man in our current surroundings on earth being American begin to develop our decision making ability. At age 24-25 we begin to understand consequences on a scale that is much more recognizable within our thought process. At the age of about 26 is true peak physical and mental cognition. So to enter a human man and woman safely within our sister galaxy at the prime age of 24-26 and reproducing each generation at the age of 24 to 26 would provide our prime chances of successfully gaining access to the next galaxy. Maintaining physiological cognition through the next promising frontier is a very tough objective but will likely be met by using machine/s in place of the human body for the duration of the 4 generations assuming successful reproduction can be made throughout these deteriorating facets of deep space to maintain human brain power to record data and report back to the mothership to use for future explorations and successful inhabitation.

 

 

There are equations related to this goal. This is where science and math end on earth and begin into unknown dimension/s to develop new terminology. At the point humanity can reach the next galaxy reality will undergo inhabitation which will likely be so distant from the reality of earth it will begin its own characteristics altogether 100%. At this point there is no way to understand what is beyond the Milky Way other than through pictures. One day to do this we must reach Mars. It will be done regardless of what any of us want or feel. Barring any catastrophic earth subject this is the only way.

 

Myself I do not believe any human is yet capable of any feat such as what will be done one day. Making the journey to fast is not a good decision. When the time is right even if that's 1000 years from now then so be it. One thing that should be clear is the negative impact we have on the earth as it is. We should be 100% self sustainable in a much cleaner way than we do now on the Earth before undergoing an exploration such as into a new galaxy. Even the cost of the mars manifest is excessive. This is why I do not believe in this exploration today. It is completely possible that every human be happy and do what make/s them happy without greed and pollution on the planet Earth. Many humans live beyond his/her needs every single day. If all humanity would simply save their time with excessiveness we could be such a better world. We all enjoy certain stuff and yes learning what and where deep space is and where it goes is important but doing things properly and efficiently in a tasteful manner can help equal the entire world. Maybe once we get to mars and there on after we will learn to take care of the only Earth?

 

It would be best to be self sustainable on earth under the huge glorious glowing ball that radiates.

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