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RF-7II vs. Heritage for HT


Guest Steven1963

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From a measurement standpoint, I think the RF-7 setup would measure the best.  From an excitement level, the Heritage line just seems to be more engaging. Both would be great and I have tried to have both setups simultaneously so I could compare, but I just haven't been able to swing it.  I would have no problem with either.

Why would you say that you would even think the RF-7II would measure best??? In what way??? It sure does not sound the best, is not as efficient, so it inherently should have more distortion. They are more power hungry, wont play as loud. I would surely think they don't play as flat, and horn loaded Bass is more accurate if he goes with Klipschorns or LaScalas. I presently own all TSCMs and original RF-7s and it is hands down no comparison. I have owned both Klipschorns and LaScalas in the past as well as have a buddy within 12 miles that has a pair of Klipschorns and three LaScalas, a brother in Law within 5 miles that owns Klipschorns and a Nephew within 3 miles that owns LaScalas. I am truly curious where you are coming from with this and what you base your hypothesis on???

Roger

 

 

Distortion is not even a real factor.  The RF 7, 7II are prettey efficient and at most people listening level the distortion of either Heritage or Reference will not be audible.  Now if you like like the sound of one over the other, that is a personal choice.   How much clearer can voices and explosions get, lol.  Most people run a sub in their HT and that reduces cone movement of any speaker dramatically/distortion.  To many people use that distortion phrase when it comes to Heritage vs Reference and don't quantify it with supporting data at normal listening levels or in the drivers normal operating range.  Don't get me wrong, Heritage speakers can make an awesome HT but, my Reference set for HT is pretty awsome also. :P

While it MIGHT be a correct statement that most people cannot hear the distortion at listening levels, I can. The fact still remains that a more efficient driver inherently has less distortion and it is not just the woofers that are more efficient at a given listening level if the speaker plays flat on it's measured output so your subwoofer theory is incorrect. The fact also remains that when listened to in an A/B side by side comparison, the RF-7s are clearly less detailed to my ears, and evidently to Youthman's as well as has been stated in his posts about his home theatre after A/Bing his reference and changing to LaScalas. Those with a preference for the RFs sound are not liking greater fidelity and are similar to people who like the SOUND of Bose as an extreme example of preferring the sound of one speaker over another and not critically listening to a speakers detail. That being said, the Reference speakers are still very good speakers.

Roger

Edited by twistedcrankcammer
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I agree. Reference are great. But when your talking la scalas and above there is just more detail there. Prime example would be an rc-64. I thought it was the best center I would ever own. Wrong. There are much cleaner center channels out there. Still good. But it does in fact get better. However it's al a moot point of the OP doesn't have room for a trio of la scalas. If he has to have a traditional center to me it sounds like possibly trying to find a rc-7 or havin a custom build rf-7ii center would be the way to go.

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I'll throw my .02 in. I had a setup with (3) LS across the front, Cornwall sides and Heresy rears. It sounded absolutely fantastic. I had just way too many boxes in the house and needed to scale down to just a 2 channel setup and an HT setup. In the end a system consisting of (4) RF 7's and (3) RC 7's got the nod, mainly due to the size of the boxes. In some ways the RF 7's have a better sound and at times the Heritage wins. Bottom line it's too close to call at least in my case.

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There's a lot of reference bashing on this thread so I'll just add that for you to accept the presumption that a pair of Cornwalls is measurably better than a pair of RF-7II's, you'd have to assume that advancements in computer modeling and sound measurements used to develop horn design haven't produced a better speaker in 2010 than was possible in 1959.

 

I compared Cornwalls to RF-7II's since they both use direct radiating woofers and I said measurably because I recognize that folks may subjectively prefer the sound of one line over another.  

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There's a lot of reference bashing on this thread so I'll just add that for you to accept the presumption that a pair of Cornwalls is measurably better than a pair of RF-7II's, you'd have to assume that advancements in computer modeling and sound measurements used to develop horn design haven't produced a better speaker in 2010 than was possible in 1959.

 

I compared Cornwalls to RF-7II's since they both use direct radiating woofers and I said measurably because I recognize that folks may subjectively prefer the sound of one line over another.

No Reference bashing here, Everything I stated is true.

Also for your information is the FACT that there are details missing in the sound reproduction of the EF-7s midrange.

I don't give two shits about colored sound, what I do care about is how much I am hearing!

I own both and you??

It's not an assumption, The LaScala and Klipschorns ARE better speakers than the Reference, The RF-7s are limited by the Laws of Physics period.

Roger

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Also for your information is the FACT that there are details missing in the sound reproduction of the EF-7s midrange.

 

I can agree with this totally.  Now if you said that about the RF-63's(6.5" woofers vs 10" woofers), I would not agree that totally. ;)  :D

 

The RF-7s are limited by the Laws of Physics period.
 

 

Bill

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The LaScala and Klipschorns ARE better speakers than the Reference, The RF-7s are limited by the Laws of Physics period.

Slow down…I never compared reference to La Scalas or Klipschorns.

but a lot of people are comparing those exact ones. Ref head compared his cornwalls to his rf-7ii and said ther was no clear winner. Now when he stepped up this kpt cinema gear with much larger horn throat (same as la scalas I believe) then the game changes. No one is bashing reference stuff. Some of us are just saying there is better out there. At a price and space premium obviously
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Heritage! I went from the RF-7II system with an RC-64II to heritage. The heritage sounds like a real movie theater to me! Love it!

I like the clean front end of both your setups.

 

What center(s) are you using in the Heritage setup, and how do you have it wired?  I presume there is only one set of outputs on your AVR for which you need to connect 2 speakers.

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Guest Steven1963

All of these replies are very enlightening.  I did own a pair lascala's for 2 channel but got rid of them in favor of the Klipschorns. I have never had the room for HT until now so it's never been an issue. Since I've never listened to any reference models you guys made the perfect sounding board to bounce my dilemma into.  I will likely go with Heritage.  And I'd like to go with 3 lascala's up front and two heresy's in the back.

 

As far as WAF goes, I don't think I will have an issue with the heresy's but convincing the wife that I need 3 lascalas when I just got rid of 2 of them last year might be problematic. Not saying I can't make it happen, I'll just have to be move slow and methodical :ph34r: .  The other problem with that is, I'm not the type that will settle for 2 matched speakers and 1 mismatch, so it'll take time to find the right deals.  I can't afford to buy new.

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There's a lot of reference bashing on this thread so I'll just add that for you to accept the presumption that a pair of Cornwalls is measurably better than a pair of RF-7II's, you'd have to assume that advancements in computer modeling and sound measurements used to develop horn design haven't produced a better speaker in 2010 than was possible in 1959. I compared Cornwalls to RF-7II's since they both use direct radiating woofers and I said measurably because I recognize that folks may subjectively prefer the sound of one line over another.

No Reference bashing here, Everything I stated is true.Also for your information is the FACT that there are details missing in the sound reproduction of the EF-7s midrange.I don't give two shits about colored sound, what I do care about is how much I am hearing!I own both and you??It's not an assumption, The LaScala and Klipschorns ARE better speakers than the Reference, The RF-7s are limited by the Laws of Physics period.Roger

Someone's panties got pretty wadded up...

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Heritage speakers have a dedicated midrange driver and excel in that respect.  But, this again is choice on which sound you like and not distortion.  I own both and head to head the Reference and Heritage speakers do not have audible distortion.  Subwoofers dramatically reduce the need for excursion of the supporting speakers because they don't have to produce deep bass which is the major cause of a lot of speaker cone excursion.

 

In my system using subwoofers, it function has a three way system using the subs to a certain point.  If the deep bass meaing sub, mains set to large is not flat in the FR, then peaks and dips in the bass FR may deviate by as much as 30 + db.  This alone will mask any distortion form the amp, cable, and speakers.

 

Speakers in general have linear and non-linear distortion.  The non linear distortion intorduces new frequencies that were not contained in the electrical signal.  Adding a midrange driver in a 3 way speaker can cut the non-linear distortion 10-15% compared to a two way speaker.  This is due to reduced intermodulation distortion related to speaker cone movement.  Adding a sub/s will do the same thing to a two way speaker system  The sub will also handle the deep bass with less distortion than almost any tower speaker.  As previously stated, distortion is not a factor in the majority of HT systems with a sub/s

Edited by derrickdj1
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The heritage line work great for home theater and the RF-7's are impressive as well, don't think you could go wrong either way.

I agree.  I posted some comments about this very thing here in the Tour of Wakejunkie's HT Thread.

 

I do feel my LaScala Trio has more detail and better midrange than the RF-7ii and although the RC-64 is an awesome center, a LaScala Center blows it away in clarity and detail. 

 

In the case of Wakejunkie's setup, he's built a custom cabinet for an RC-7ii using the components of an RF-7ii.  I was concerned at first that it would not sound identical to the RF-7ii's but it does.  It makes for an incredible center channel that pairs perfectly with his RF-7ii.

 

Best thing to do is to see if you can find a local RF-7ii setup to demo.

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Heritage! I went from the RF-7II system with an RC-64II to heritage. The heritage sounds like a real movie theater to me! Love it!

I like the clean front end of both your setups.

 

What center(s) are you using in the Heritage setup, and how do you have it wired?  I presume there is only one set of outputs on your AVR for which you need to connect 2 speakers.

Thanks! I am running two Heresy III's in parallel to the center output of my Emotiva Fusion 8100. It truly sounds like a single center as they are only about four feet apart.

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All of these replies are very enlightening.  I did own a pair lascala's for 2 channel but got rid of them in favor of the Klipschorns. I have never had the room for HT until now so it's never been an issue. Since I've never listened to any reference models you guys made the perfect sounding board to bounce my dilemma into.  I will likely go with Heritage.  And I'd like to go with 3 lascala's up front and two heresy's in the back.

 

As far as WAF goes, I don't think I will have an issue with the heresy's but convincing the wife that I need 3 lascalas when I just got rid of 2 of them last year might be problematic. Not saying I can't make it happen, I'll just have to be move slow and methodical :ph34r: .  The other problem with that is, I'm not the type that will settle for 2 matched speakers and 1 mismatch, so it'll take time to find the right deals.  I can't afford to buy new.

three heresies will do just fine - as long that you are there - I would get 2 pairs of heresies  - used can be 2-3-400 a pair - not bad

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Man, you guys with heritage make me envious. I have never heard them and would love to if any owners have some in NC. My situation on my gear is based on space. I would love the have some heritage gear.....maybe in my next house that i would build around my gear, not the other way around like I did with this house.  

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Once we get this rip in the space-time continuum decided, how are we going to address the fact that horns are honky?

 

:ph34r:

 

You have Jubs, right?   Are those huge horns honky?  :)   You're joking, right?

 

I think the term "honky" started to be used by golden ear speciality stores -- who carried no horns --  c.1975 to 1980.  It was propaganda, and people already associated horns with honks because of automobile horns.  In years of listening to horns by Klipsch, JBL, Altec, and some others, I've heard harshness, and other anomalies (some probably due to the recordings), but I've never heard any thing anywhere near a "honk."

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