BusaDude Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 You didn't mention what model HK receivers you were talking about. Not sure whether they are new (multi-channel capable) or older (2 channel only)... But as others have mentioned, there are other things to consider, that will make a bigger difference. In fact, the extra 35 wpc will only give you about 1 dB more output. You'd need to double the 85 wpc to 170 wpc, to gain just 3 dB in output. As the RF-82's are rated 150 wpc continuos and 600 wpc peak. An amp with a higher dynamic (short term) output would give you better headroom protection if you like to listen at louder levels, but that's really it. Since you mentioned having no Dolby settings and no EQ (no tone controls?) capabilities... do you have a sub output? Or are these just 2 channel receivers? The 85 wpc would be plenty of power for the RF-82's. So if you are just looking for more bass, it might be related to how you have the speakers positioned in your room. Are they against a wall, in a corner, etc? I'm currently using an AVR1700, 5.1 but only in stereo mode. The speakers are positioned in the corner, they will move closer to the wall soon, but so far I've tested them about 3 feet off the wall. The bass is okay, its not insufficient, actually I'd say the mids being a little washed out is the bigger problem. This new line of "green" H/K receivers -- I wonder if its not as warm as the older/higher end H/K receivers? The bass is ok, but the highs seem to be much more noticeable than the mids. Especially on something like electronica/trance. Whereas more acoustic/jazz/laid back music sounds quite good. After looking up the receiver on HK's website I downloaded the owner's manual... It appears to have good, solid 2-channel power specs (95 wpc, 20Hz-20KHz @ 8 ohms). After reading through most of the manual, I'd verify the following... In the AVR setup, make sure the left/right speakers are set to "Large" and that the "subwoofer" setting is turned "off". This will make sure a full range signal is getting sent to the speakers. Also make sure the speaker distances (to your listening position) are correct. Make sure the "night mode" is turned off. If your speakers are in the corner, but away from the back wall. Try moving them closer to the back wall, so they are only 6"-12" away. Having them 3 feet away from the wall will definitely reduce the in-room bass response. The receiver does have tone controls and you can apparently access them from the remote. So once you get the speakers closer to the back wall, if they still sound bass shy, you can add some bass via the tone control. I'd bet though, that most of your issues are related to speaker placement. So moving them around, closer to the back wall (for increased bass) and maybe away from the corner/side wall, to help tame some of the early high-frequency reflections... Will give you the best results. The AVR itself, based on its 2-channel power specs, looks to be more than capable. And if you eventually add a subwoofer, it would help even more. Hope you get it sorted out... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadie777 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I'm currently using an AVR1700, 5.1 but only in stereo mode. The speakers are positioned in the corner, they will move closer to the wall soon, but so far I've tested them about 3 feet off the wall. The bass is okay, its not insufficient, actually I'd say the mids being a little washed out is the bigger problem. This new line of "green" H/K receivers -- I wonder if its not as warm as the older/higher end H/K receivers? The bass is ok, but the highs seem to be much more noticeable than the mids. Especially on something like electronica/trance. Whereas more acoustic/jazz/laid back music sounds quite good. I had my H/K AVR 1710 hooked up to my RF 83s and experienced the same thing you describe here. I ended up replacing it with a Denon X4000. Same thing happened when I hooked up my AVR 1565 to my RB 75s. Replaced that with a Yamaha R S700. Now the H/K sounds fine with my WF 35s. I don't know what it is about these H/K avrs and Reference series speakers, but they are not a good combo to my ears at all. I'm sure others will disagree, but that's just my opinion. My advice, try another brand and see if it isn't better to your ears also. Edited March 11, 2015 by sadie777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 You didn't mention what model HK receivers you were talking about. Not sure whether they are new (multi-channel capable) or older (2 channel only)... But as others have mentioned, there are other things to consider, that will make a bigger difference. In fact, the extra 35 wpc will only give you about 1 dB more output. You'd need to double the 85 wpc to 170 wpc, to gain just 3 dB in output. As the RF-82's are rated 150 wpc continuos and 600 wpc peak. An amp with a higher dynamic (short term) output would give you better headroom protection if you like to listen at louder levels, but that's really it. Since you mentioned having no Dolby settings and no EQ (no tone controls?) capabilities... do you have a sub output? Or are these just 2 channel receivers? The 85 wpc would be plenty of power for the RF-82's. So if you are just looking for more bass, it might be related to how you have the speakers positioned in your room. Are they against a wall, in a corner, etc? I'm currently using an AVR1700, 5.1 but only in stereo mode. The speakers are positioned in the corner, they will move closer to the wall soon, but so far I've tested them about 3 feet off the wall. The bass is okay, its not insufficient, actually I'd say the mids being a little washed out is the bigger problem. This new line of "green" H/K receivers -- I wonder if its not as warm as the older/higher end H/K receivers? The bass is ok, but the highs seem to be much more noticeable than the mids. Especially on something like electronica/trance. Whereas more acoustic/jazz/laid back music sounds quite good. If you are saying the mids are the bigger problem, the different receiver with more power is very unlikely to help. More power in the way of a better quality amp usually is most noticeable in tightening up the bottom end. Are you using RF-82 or RF-82 IIs? It appears that MK1 RF-82 had a 2K crossover where the RF-82 II had a lower 1.4K crossover. The lower crossover should give you better mids by forcing the midrange duties off the woofers into the horns. Secondly it would allow less cancellation between the multi-woofer setup with the high frequency horn. This would also be done if the speaker was made as a 2.5 way though I haven't gone digging for the crossover. What I have said would of course be if the II version was optimized for the 1400hz crossover but again it is a 2way. Mids are why you have speakers like Heresy, which are 3way with a dedicated midrange. It makes a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant0086 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) can you try to eq a little .ore bass and mid in before you spend the money on more power? and welcome to the forum. rf-82's are pretty sweet. they were my first klipsch speakers! The amp has no eq, so that's a bit tricky :-/ Even with tone controls, you should be able to get more of what you want out of it. As others have said, a sub is a good choice, though. My speakers are the size of squatty refrigerators, with 15" woofers and I use a sub. Bryant Edited March 12, 2015 by Bryant0086 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I must have missed something. I think the sub idea is good but based on the response, the washed out mids are the biggest problem. Not sure everyone talking about bass is fixing the mids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Sometimes getting the mids out of a two way speaker is a bit of a job. To get the mids to shine with the RF 7's. I use a parametric QE under 100 Hz to reduce and elevate the bass in a couple of spots to blen better with the subs. A little excess bass at certain frequencies can seem to kill some of the midrange. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peshewah Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I agree with Russ69. I have 62's and I added an amp. I could tell a difference. Not a night and day difference but there was a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupinglade Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Will do some testing today closer to the walls and maybe play around with the tone adjustments a bit. Thanks for everyone's help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I must have missed something. I think the sub idea is good but based on the response, the washed out mids are the biggest problem. Not sure everyone talking about bass is fixing the mids. Off loading the deeper bass via high passing the mains and using subs will reduce cone motion of the mains and help clean up the mid bass. Slightly better dynamics too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 How noticeable would the difference between a 85wpc and 120wpc receiver be on RF82s? Same receiver brand (Harman Kardon). Thanks! less distortion - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant0086 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Sometimes getting the mids out of a two way speaker is a bit of a job. To get the mids to shine with the RF 7's. I use a parametric QE under 100 Hz to reduce and elevate the bass in a couple of spots to blen better with the subs. A little excess bass at certain frequencies can seem to kill some of the midrange. No offense to "audiophiles" but the way I see it........ EQs are put in amps for a reason. Derrick is 100% correct on this one. "If it don't sound right, make it sound right." Bryant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I must have missed something. I think the sub idea is good but based on the response, the washed out mids are the biggest problem. Not sure everyone talking about bass is fixing the mids. Off loading the deeper bass via high passing the mains and using subs will reduce cone motion of the mains and help clean up the mid bass. Slightly better dynamics too. Agreed in the dynamics area but since there isn't an issue with loudness, real problem appears to be a two way with a high crossover. I find it hard to force midrange out of two drivers that are of those sizes and crossover point. That requires eq (then not as clean) or a dedicated midrange driver. Two ways are much better at presenting a relaxed midrange but many people want an up front sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 A little excess bass at certain frequencies can seem to kill some of the midrange. Very true. Also, midrange peaks can be made to seem less prominent by increasing the bass. It works both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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