Advantages of tinning speaker wires with Silver solder?

[TwoCables]

You stated this is on a Pro Media system.

 

(I've owned three of them)

 

I'd bet a very satisfying lunch that those leads are not tinned with any form of silver solder.  (though the solder might be silver in color)

 

I recall seeing that my leads were tinned....  but I'd have to simply say there is no way Klipsch would go to the extra expense of silver solder over normal solder on them.

 

Klipsch didn't make these wires. These are the ones that Klipsch made:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/525197/klipsch-promedia-2-1-monster-cable-upgrade-kit

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y103/m3ta1head/IMG_5920.jpg?t=1290896965

As you can see from my OP, these are the ones I have:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-ProMedia-2-1-Premium-Speaker-Wires-Custom-Made-Pair-10-/121597099798

 

This eBay seller made them using Monster XP wires with Neutrik's Rean plugs. If you're wondering where they mention Silver solder, I found out by asking before buying because I bought these wires first:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-ProMedia-2-1-Premium-Gold-16ga-Speaker-wires-Cables-Professional-Pair-/251886694828

 

The reason I bought the Monster wires is, I couldn't rest until I bought them to see how they compare.

Edited March 21, 2015 by TwoCables

[Deang]

I saw magnet wire mentioned earlier - which I experimented with when I had the Jubilees. After deciding that I was definitely hearing a smoothing of sorts, I ended up using 14 awg litz from a coil I unrolled for the runs to the compression drivers. I listened for a week and then went back to straight cooper -- I will never understand how people can't hear these not always subtle and significant differences. I mean, it's not like changing out a set of crossovers or an amp, but it's there. I use the Supra from Madisound, and when I found it to be indistinguishable from the magnet wire, I stopped using the magnet wire, which is a pain to work with.

Unless there is a significant amount wire missing, it's not going to make a difference. For what it's worth, I don't use connectors of any kind, just bare wire to the binding posts or barrier strips (the best connector is no connector). I also pitch the stock biwire jumpers, and make my own - again - I just strip the ends. The Supra is tin coated annealed copper. It's a little over a dollar a foot, and the best deal in wire - period. So you see, I've developed my own form of audio-nervosa!

[TwoCables]

I saw magnet wire mentioned earlier - which I experimented with when I had the Jubilees. After deciding that I was definitely hearing a smoothing of sorts, I ended up using 14 awg litz from a coil I unrolled for the runs to the compression drivers. I listened for a week and then went back to straight cooper -- I will never understand how people can't hear these not always subtle and significant differences. I mean, it's not like changing out a set of crossovers or an amp, but it's there. I use the Supra from Madisound, and when I found it to be indistinguishable from the magnet wire, I stopped using the magnet wire, which is a pain to work with.

Unless there is a significant amount wire missing, it's not going to make a difference. For what it's worth, I don't use connectors of any kind, just bare wire to the binding posts or barrier strips (the best connector is no connector). I also pitch the stock biwire jumpers, and make my own - again - I just strip the ends. The Supra is tin coated annealed copper. It's a little over a dollar a foot, and the best deal in wire - period. So you see, I've developed my own form of audio-nervosa!

 

I don't have any interest at the moment though of making any physical modifications to my ProMedia 2.1's satellite speakers. So for the foreseeable future, it's bare wire in the amp and 1/8" mono plugs into the satellites.

 

Anyway, I can see how people can't hear the differences. After all, the majority of normal consumers can't hear the differences between a 128k MP3 rip of their favorite album and the retail CD. They simply don't know what details aspects are different, and so they don't notice. Most people just pay attention to the Bass and the Volume. Some even get the two mixed up. heh

Edited March 21, 2015 by TwoCables

[mark1101]

It sounds like if you don't strip those wires back and create some new ends (with no missing strands) you are going to have a nervous breakdown. 

 

Personally, I agree.  I don't like my speaker wires to have broken strands.  I'm sure a few make no difference whatsoever..........but hey........they put the strands in there for a reason.  The beer will taste better when you know the wires are perfect on both ends and on both speakers.

 

Strip the wires and make sure you don't knock any strands off. 

 

I don't believe the solder on the ends of the wires makes any difference at all.  It is probably to keep the strands from fraying more than anything else.

[Thaddeus Smith]

I saw magnet wire mentioned earlier - which I experimented with when I had the Jubilees. After deciding that I was definitely hearing a smoothing of sorts, I ended up using 14 awg litz from a coil I unrolled for the runs to the compression drivers. I listened for a week and then went back to straight cooper -- I will never understand how people can't hear these not always subtle and significant differences. I mean, it's not like changing out a set of crossovers or an amp, but it's there. I use the Supra from Madisound, and when I found it to be indistinguishable from the magnet wire, I stopped using the magnet wire, which is a pain to work with.

Unless there is a significant amount wire missing, it's not going to make a difference. For what it's worth, I don't use connectors of any kind, just bare wire to the binding posts or barrier strips (the best connector is no connector). I also pitch the stock biwire jumpers, and make my own - again - I just strip the ends. The Supra is tin coated annealed copper. It's a little over a dollar a foot, and the best deal in wire - period. So you see, I've developed my own form of audio-nervosa!

 

That was me. 12ga magnet wire was a HUGE pain in the *** to work with.. but sonically I found magnet wire to be wonderful. I haven't put it in my current system - where I am currently using Supra wire - but based on your observations it may not be necessary.

[colterphoto1]

Not to frustrate you further, but 1/8" mini plugs represent about the least amount of contact you can get in a connector, it's two rounded objects, arranged tangentially to each other - next to NIL in terms of surface contact. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by colterphoto1

[TwoCables]

It sounds like if you don't strip those wires back and create some new ends (with no missing strands) you are going to have a nervous breakdown. 

 

Personally, I agree.  I don't like my speaker wires to have broken strands.  I'm sure a few make no difference whatsoever..........but hey........they put the strands in there for a reason.  The beer will taste better when you know the wires are perfect on both ends and on both speakers.

 

Strip the wires and make sure you don't knock any strands off. 

 

I don't believe the solder on the ends of the wires makes any difference at all.  It is probably to keep the strands from fraying more than anything else.

 

LOL

 

I might look into what you're talking about if I decide to learn how to get the 3.5mm plugs off so that I can redo those ends too. After all, how can I relax if I think that he stripped away some of the strands on both ends?

 

However, I have been reminding myself of how much thicker these wires are (at the bare ends) in comparison to the stock wires; it's like comparing a fat, full-grown Anaconda to a little baby snake. They're so thick that it's actually somewhat difficult to insert them into the amplifier's wire connectors! So, I've been reminding myself that even if I'm right that I don't have absolutely all of the strands inside the wire connectors (that maybe I'm missing an outer layer of skin, so to speak), what I do have in there is still an extremely collossal upgrade over the stock wires - physiclly speaking. In addition to that, the difference in terms of wire gauge between all the strands and what I think I have is tiny and fractional. I mean, I'd bet that the bare ends are no smaller than 16.5 AWG, which is still an enormous upgrade over 22.AWG of aluminum junk. lol

 

So, even though it would bring me peace of mind, I am becoming quite convinced that it wouldn't make any audible difference. It probably woudn't even make a difference that super-sensitive testing equipment would be able to detect!

 

 

Not to frustrate you further, but 1/8" mini plugs represent about the least amount of contact you can get in a connector, it's two rounded objects, arranged tangentially to each other - next to NIL in terms of surface contact. 

 

I admit that I didn't know that, but I'm not brave enough yet to do any physical mods to my ProMedia 2.1. I mean, the system I have is a rare find in my opinion because it's an original version that's in mint condition. So, I'd be afraid of breaking it (I've never liked a speaker system quite this much lol). I mean, I've had it for a month and 4 days now, and during that time, I've looked for another that's in mint condition just in case I run into an opportunity to recommend it to someone, but I have yet to find one that's as good as mine. I've found some originals that are in very good condition (and I did recommend them to a couple of people), but mine is so good that I could probably convince someone that I bought it brand new. So, if something bad happened to it, then I don't know what I'd do.

 

Due to what you told me though, I took a close look inside of the 3.5mm jacks on the satellites, and I can see what you're saying now, but it doesn't look as bad as I thought it would. The first 3 or 4mm of the hole is a solid barrel of metal (I was glad to see that), but at the end deep inside appears to be a single, angled leaf spring. Still, I don't want to worry about it right now because if I were to replace these with 2 binding posts of some kind, then this would be my very first physical mod of anything. Of course, it would also leave me wanting to replace the amplifier's spring connectors with binding posts as well!

 

So, maybe some day, but definitely not now. Still, I'm grateful to you for bringing this to my attention because I honestly haven't given it any thought.

[mark1101]

OK, it is obvious now that you have too large a wire gauge and must reduce the number of strands.  You need to actually count the total amount of strands, and carefully (be careful here), remove the amount (count the number of strands) that safely allows the wire to connect properly.  Then, carefully (be careful here again) remove the EXACT same number of strands on the other wire.

 

There you go.

 

You'll have the satisfaction of knowing it's right.

[Karsoncookie]

Not only do they both need the exact number, ALSO it MUST be an EVEN number of strands, so as to not affect the delicate skin effect balance, or you end up with a lopsided soundstage.

 

Can't recall if I learned that at tech school, or was it a "Monk" TV episode ?.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.       My bad,  Lars

[TwoCables]

I'd probably end up using a prime number just for fun.

[Karsoncookie]

I dunno, those are odd if I recall. Scary.

I'll post a link here tonight that you may like, interesting reading. 

Stay tuned.........Lars

[TwoCables]

I dunno, those are odd if I recall. Scary.

I'll post a link here tonight that you may like, interesting reading. 

Stay tuned.........Lars

 

Yeah, I guess you're right. Odd numbers are bad. Everything must be even. Everything!

 

In all seriousness though, I've mostly convinced myself that the difference that I'd create by redoing the ends would be like upgrading from a 16.5 AWG wire to a 16 AWG wire. Actually, it would probably be more like 16.001 AWG vs. a full 16 AWG. lol (I have a lack of knowledge due to never seeing different wire gauges in person).

Edited March 24, 2015 by TwoCables

[Karsoncookie]

Two Cables-    I tried to find a certain great thread on cables, but wasn't able to.  But as said before, you may gain peace by searching "Cable comparison" or simliar more.

 

In all seriousness though, I've mostly convinced myself that the difference that I'd create by redoing the ends would be like upgrading from a 16.5 AWG wire to a 16 AWG wire. Actually, it would probably be more like 16.001 AWG vs. a full 16 AWG. lol (I have a lack of knowledge due to never seeing different wire gauges in person).

 

 

Exactly correct!!  But Wait... Theres More... -- You have, I dunno, maybe 15' long runs. If 1/2" is stripped even 10% smaller, you have done (approximately the same ohms) wise as adding like about 2 inches of wire to that whole run.

Totally inconsequential.

BUT- you didn't even really do that, because most of your stripped end is past the connection point. Not even in the circuit.

 

So it's some value even way less.

 

You would be better worrying about making your cable runs as short as possibly, that would be of more cosequence than the above

 

But that would be unhearable as well. So please don't.

 

The only concern is, when some strands are cut, either equally from all sides, or off of one side (someone clumsy using a blade incorrectly instead of a correctly sized concentric stripper) ... Is that some more strands will be partially cut. Nicked.

 

So as said before by another in this post, that could matter if alot of bending or vibratipn is happening, and alot more strands break. That ain't your case.

 

Two cables- The best you can do is-- cut off the stripped ends, then re strip them either with a PROPER tool, or even a razor- but skilfully done - no nick no strandees.

 

Then work a drop of Vaseline into the strands, twist teem, and put them in the terminals.

And even the Vaseline is overkill, just help reduce the copper oxidation.

 

Solder, especially "silver" will make the wire WAY less squashable and conformable at the actual connection point, giving a technically higher resistance joint. Still not hearable at all, but not as good.    Please try to sleep tonight, Lars

[TwoCables]

Thank you, Lars!

[Karsoncookie]

And the Vaseline is no more special than any other coating to keep oxygen out. And it's totally fine it's non conductive when used in pressure connectors.

 

It's just handy in most households. But unnecessary in a normal temp and humidity home environment.

 

Finally, you may like googling "audio tweak snakeoil ( +cables) " see what you come up with. 

 

You're a young guy, if you're not familiar with the history of the term "snake oil", Wikipedia it. Enjoy,  I miss MN,    Lars

[TwoCables]

hehe I may only be 35 going on 36, but I know what snake oil is.

 

Thanks for the tip. I opened a tab with that search criteria for later when I have some time. It should be fun.

 

Anyway, so you miss MN? Where do you live now?

[Karsoncookie]

TX at the LA border. Born /raised S Mpls, Lk Mtka.(the cheap end)  Went Dunwoody, then iron range electrician in Eveleth/ Virginia area. Here 10 yrs now.

But my heart in in the North Shore area. Financial reasons keep me here.

It's all good.      Lars

[mark1101]

Vaseline on speaker wires?  You were serious............Now that's funny. 

[Don Richard]

I can't believe this thread has lasted for a week. Sheesh!

[TwoCables]

Vaseline on speaker wires?  You were serious............Now that's funny. 

 

I guess it makes sense though because the Vaseline would prevent oxygen from getting to the strands where it is applied. After all, Vaseline is just petroleum jelly with a fancy brand name. I'm not saying that I'm going to try it, but I'm beginning to understand the concept and why it would work.