Lets talk Amps

[dtel]

Then again, I may not hear any improvement using an AVR as a pre, I certainly would think it would be a good distance from a quality, dedicated pre/pro.

 Or DAC

 

The biggest mistake I made when I set up for 2 ch was to use a AVR as a pre.  (pre-outs)

 

Disconnected the AVR and put a DAC in it's place for 2 ch and the difference was shocking, it was a Yamaha AVR and the DAC is far from the best but the difference was amazing in overall sound.

 

I would put in a switch box, to separate 2 ch away from the AVR completely, switch it back for multichannel. if possable

Edited May 30, 2015 by dtel

[joshnich]

 

I recently auditioned the relatively new Benchmark AHB2 amplifier.

....

It now has a permanent home in my system and I couldnt be happier.

....

Josh



Hi Josh. How does your new Benchmark perform at low volume? Is there anything lost at low volume when compared to your normal listening level? Have you tried different gain settings? What’s your preamp, other than Benchmark DAC? Thanks

Serge

 

I have used the Benchmark DAC as the preamp using the George Wright Phono stage . I have also used My Juicy Music Merlin preamp using the George Wright Phono. I prefer using the Merlin but the Dac on its own is pretty remarkable . The Benchmark has three input gain settings. I can switch betweent he three and find the quality that pleases. I cannot tell you what the gain numbers are - Im sure they are on the Benchmark Website. The manual says to use one with pro audio and one of the others for other preamps. Its pretty easy to hear and find the input that works best with your preamp. The Amp continues to amaze. It is truly another world!

 

Josh

[Serge_S]

 

 

I recently auditioned the relatively new Benchmark AHB2 amplifier.

....

It now has a permanent home in my system and I couldnt be happier.

....

Josh



Hi Josh. How does your new Benchmark perform at low volume? Is there anything lost at low volume when compared to your normal listening level? Have you tried different gain settings? What’s your preamp, other than Benchmark DAC? Thanks

Serge

 

I have used the Benchmark DAC as the preamp using the George Wright Phono stage . I have also used My Juicy Music Merlin preamp using the George Wright Phono. I prefer using the Merlin but the Dac on its own is pretty remarkable . The Benchmark has three input gain settings. I can switch betweent he three and find the quality that pleases. I cannot tell you what the gain numbers are - Im sure they are on the Benchmark Website. The manual says to use one with pro audio and one of the others for other preamps. Its pretty easy to hear and find the input that works best with your preamp. The Amp continues to amaze. It is truly another world!

 

Josh

 

 

Thanks Josh.  How's Benchmark's low volume performance?  Is much lost when compared to normal levels.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Serge_S

[joshnich]

 

 

 

I recently auditioned the relatively new Benchmark AHB2 amplifier.

....

It now has a permanent home in my system and I couldnt be happier.

....

Josh



Hi Josh. How does your new Benchmark perform at low volume? Is there anything lost at low volume when compared to your normal listening level? Have you tried different gain settings? What’s your preamp, other than Benchmark DAC? Thanks

Serge

 

I have used the Benchmark DAC as the preamp using the George Wright Phono stage . I have also used My Juicy Music Merlin preamp using the George Wright Phono. I prefer using the Merlin but the Dac on its own is pretty remarkable . The Benchmark has three input gain settings. I can switch betweent he three and find the quality that pleases. I cannot tell you what the gain numbers are - Im sure they are on the Benchmark Website. The manual says to use one with pro audio and one of the others for other preamps. Its pretty easy to hear and find the input that works best with your preamp. The Amp continues to amaze. It is truly another world!

 

Josh

 

 

Thanks Josh.  How's Benchmark's low volume performance?  Is much lost when compared to normal levels.

 

I always use low volume performance as one of my primary ways to judge any component and particularly the amp. So yes the low volume performance is awesome!

[LarryC]

I have to say this is the best amplifier I have ever heard. It is truly remarkable. It now has a permanent home in my system and I couldnt be happier - not because of the specs because truthfully I dont know what they mean, but because of how it sounds.

interesting and valuable testimony.  Did you once have a pCAT?  I wonder how it sounds in comparison.  Thanks, 

[Kent T]

For me, there is McIntosh, and then everyone else. Musical as heck. Klipsch are efficient, 50 WPC plenty. MA 5100 and MC 2505 great bargains. 

[joshnich]

I have to say this is the best amplifier I have ever heard. It is truly remarkable. It now has a permanent home in my system and I couldnt be happier - not because of the specs because truthfully I dont know what they mean, but because of how it sounds.

interesting and valuable testimony.  Did you once have a pCAT?  I wonder how it sounds in comparison.  Thanks,

I indeed own pcats and yes they are wonderful. It is hard to compare the two because they are similar in signature. Given the diminutive size and weight of the benchmark I would say that it is preferred between the two. Also the benchmark is dead silent. The tube rush and slight hum experienced with all tube Amps is non existent. It never bothered me but I am appreciating the silence of the benchmark.

[joshnich]

Not to beat a dead horse....

 

http://www.pooraudiophile.com/2015/07/john-siau-interview-benchmark-ahb2.html

[tube fanatic]

 Tubes and Klipsch have been the benchmark of great sound for years with a quality SET (single ended triode) the most desirable.

 

 

I've been trying to make this point for a long time and it is unfortunate, indeed, that there seems to be little or no interest in promoting this except by individual audiophiles.  A contrast is a company like Zu Audio which makes a definite point of saying that their speakers can be used with as little as 2 watts (or less) in smaller sized rooms.  Not trying to be derogatory when it comes to Klipsch (I'll be faithful to the brand to the end!), but a forum section dedicated to this would be a free marketing tool which could only help sales (I, and many others on here, do not have any products to sell and will in no way benefit from this).  Sorry to be a broken record on this last point but, as a former business owner, I find it hard to imagine not wanting to take advantage of free promotion of one's products or services.

 

Maynard

[joshnich]

I have owned an F4 and yes First Watt amplifiers are terrific. I still own a pair of Cary CAD 45se monoblocks so I am familiar with  sound of quality SET.  In my humble view this new Benchmark AHB2 outshines both the f4 and the Cary SET - by a long shot at least to me. It is the first solid state amplifier that has lasted more than month on my rack and its not going anywhere!

 

Josh

[Guest thesloth]

Specifications are meaningless UNLESS you know how to interpret them. You talk about SNR when comparing two amps, is that at full power output or at 1 watt? It makes a huge difference especially if you are comparing a 2 watt stereo to a 1000 watt stereo. You mention THD, is this measurment at full power?

 

People like to discuss power but dampening factor should be equated. The DF doesn't have to be huge, just large enough to control cone movement. It also depends on style of music you listen to.

[MyOwn]

I'm not sure if this has been posted before....If it has I apologize in advance.

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Amplifier_Output_Impedance.html

[LarryC]

t

The tube rush and slight hum experienced with all tube Amps is non existent.

I do wonder, though, if the input sensitivity is a little too high in the pCAT, if that's the case.  It probably should be about 2 or 2.5 volts for full power out.  IMO, of course

[Guest thesloth]

If a tube amp has hum or noise then it was either designed poorly or it needs to be serviced.

 

Actually my remark should be more general. Any amplifier whether SS or Tube should not exhibit excessive hum or noise unless it was poorly designed and or needs to be serviced.

Edited July 15, 2015 by thesloth

[Bofkont]

I have been very happy with my FirstWatt F3 amp. It delivers such a realistic image with ease and poise. It replaced a very good 3k€ tube amp, definately. Not knowing what could be better I don't miss anything. Very mindfull.

[joshnich]

It's not just me

http://www.pooraudiophile.com/2015/07/benchmark-ahb2-power-amplifier-review.html

[derrickdj1]

I have had several amps Class A and there is not much advantage over the AB design if well executed.  The RP line for HT need more than a 25 watts amp.  The less efficient the speaker, the more amp is needed.  I would not get something less than 80 watts, that's just me.  I have use the RF 7's with an 80 watt tube hybird for 2 channel and there was plenty of power except at extreme levels.

Edited July 29, 2015 by derrickdj1

[Shakeydeal]

When talking about 95+ db speakers, quantity goes pretty much to the side of the road. Quality is what  you want. Not something you will get with mid fi receivers.

 

Shakey

[Guest thesloth]

There is always a discussion on how much power one needs for Klipsch speakers with most members thinking more is better. Here is the specs for the RP-28FA and most Klipsch speakers are similar in that 2.84 volts at l meter = 1 watt. 

 

  98dB @ 2.83V / 1m

 

A simple test that anyone can do is to take a multimeter using the AC voltage scale and turn your system as loud as you normally listen to and measure the voltage at the speaker. The voltage will vary according to music being played and with my speakers the max I am using on peaks is less than 0.5 volts, less than a watt. You do not want an amplifier that sounds good at 100 watts but one that sounds best at less than a watt with your efficient Klipsch speakers. Then you will understand why a good quality 25 watts or less amp sounds so good with Klipsch speakers. It is all the power one needs for your speakers and this comes from an old man that once used a Crown DC300 with my LaScala's who is now using 25 watts and my speakers have never sound better. Why buy all that power when the most you need is 25 watts or less. Buy quality over quantity.

 

​A lot of receivers and amps specifications come at high watts and do not perform at their best below 1 watt. I am a firm believer in Class A whether Tube or SS with simple circuits and minimum parts. 

 

There is a better way to do this. A link: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/204857-test-how-much-voltage-power-do-your-speakers-need.html

 

Go to the second post and there is an update with instructions. My listening space is small and I have efficient speakers, I found that 10 watts is plenty for me.

[AllenTacey]

Max2 have you tried going to a live performance of a full Orchestra, chorale or solos on violins cello piano or the best a pipe organ? Try it? I think when you become aware of the "soundstage layout", how each instrument actually sounds. We can audition various equipment but what I have read made no mention of coloration, depth and/or is everything bunches up or properly spread out. At our specialty high end stores what happens when they do not carry the product line and the phone book does not reveal any shops close enough to give a listen. I bought every piece of reproduction after maybe one listen some just by the promising specifications. Total Harmonic Distortion tells you how much that new (or old) piece can accurately reproduce the highs, lows, ups or downs of Classical, Jazz, Hard/Soft Rock,Hip-Hop Rap whatever out of two speakers. What do I mean up or downs? The sound of violins are down slightly to the left running over to the viola's while the kettle drums are higher up and about forty feet back on the stage.

If you don't listen to the equipment you can know by the specifications that what you buy, new or used, is the sound you know you need. Buying used, or even new, from EBay the seller has a rating and I stick with sellers rated at 100%. I do not think if I had the dough I will not buy from a high end specialized shop but I am completely satisfied with my 2 speaker system and if I struck it rich there is nothing I'd change with my Amp/Preamp, two different Amplifiers I spent a total of $178 including shipping for "newest", $200 for oldest solid state equipment. Reference or Monitor Speakers by their definition is faithful to everything we need to hear. Klipsch References are not supposed to vary from Polk Reference as long as the specifications are Identical. The difference we will hear is when a 98dbs output at 1 watt THD .5 is compared to a 95dBs output at 1 watt THD .0005. Know that the 98dBs speaker amplified by a 50 watt tube or solid state might clip at 59 watts won't sound better than a 95dBs speaker driven by amps able to output 300 watts at clipping. Knowing the damping factor, dynamic range, total harmonic distortion and signal to noise is important. Look for these statistics and ask the salesman for these facts. Distortion less than .5 but lower numbers such as .05 or .005 is what is needed. Ruler flat 20Hz to 20kHz is great but many can be +3dBs or -3dBs or vary between -/+ in for areas hopefully not where speakers sound changeover from woofers to midrange, midrange to tweeters. Again bragging my amps are ruler flat 30Hz to 250kHz (1Hz -3 to +0 at 250kHz) damping factor over 150, dynamic range 2.5, Bass (biwired) total harmonic distortion .05 from midbass to tweeters .005. Despite somebody having the same equipment everything ends up sounding different? Confusing, it happens!

My listening room is 11 feet wide at speakers and 13 feet deep to opposite wall and at speakers 7 foot ceiling at opposite wall 10 feet. I found Reference speakers 98dBs @ 1 watt driven with up to a tad over 600 watts per speaker in my listening space will deliver perfectly reproduce sound at levels up to 115dBs maybe 120dBs.

I must be lucky at music because I have fantastic faithfulness reproduced so dang cheaply. Two Klipsch Reference-28F's even doing surround sound amazing considering the same spec'd system in a same sized room can sound so different...