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Center Channel conundrum RP/Reference mix


ScottM
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1st post here so be gentle  :)  My 5.1 HT setup has been a mix of products through the years, never a "matched" system all at once.  I'm closer than I have ever been with an all Klipsch except for the SW now.

 

My Klipsch components are

RP-280

R-25C

R-14M

 

As you can see, I have Premiere LR and the Reference line for my center and surround.  The center and surrounds were bought last year during Black Friday 1/2 price sale and were a nice bargain at that price,  At that time I did not have (or plans for) the RP-280 LR.  The R-14M were the limit in size for the WAF.  I did not get WAF approval for the RP-280s, or they would not be here :)  Honestly, everything seems to work well together.  My AVR actually sets the 3 front speakers to 0dB so they seem good in that respect.  

 

Here is the point of this thread.  I wonder how much better a different CC would be?  I was thinking about the RC 62II.  I dont think that the RC 52II or RP 250C would be a significant enough upgrade over the R-25C to bother with.  Even though they are upgrades in line, they are all the same 2x 5.25" & 1" tweeter config.  I also dont want the wide 4 speaker versions.  Here is another issue.  Cosmetics of the speakers.  The R-25C matches quite well (I leave the grills on all my speakers) with the RP-280s.  The RC 62II looks like a different line of speaker.  Can that grey strip on the bottom of the grill be removed?   In the Reference line, the RF28 which is the nearest equivalent to the RP-280 uses the R-25C as the center, so it seems like an "acceptable" configuration.  Since that is the only Reference level Center, I suppose that is understandable.  

 

Browsing this forum, I know I am way out of my league with my config and post.  There are folks here with RF7II as rear speakers.  Crazy.  Just looking for some input from the Klipsch experts

 

One last unrelated question.  What is the minimum distance from the rear of the RP-280 to the wall?

 

Thanks!

 

 

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Ok so you always wanna match front three when you can. The rf-28 is that small center because it's the biggest they make. Period. The matching center to the RP-280 is the 450C period. Get it from a good dealer at a good price and don't look back. Trust me I've heard the r-25c. It's not a very good center channel. Especially comparing it to the rp-450c.

And welcome to the forum. Please take my post with a grain of salt. I've had an embarrassing amount of speakers running through my house the last few years. I've heard all the reference stuff. You want front three to match. Rears are ok to have what you can fit/afford.

Edited by Scrappydue
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Thanks for the reply. I don't think I want a wide CC like the 450. What I would want is a RP-260C but Klipsch doesn't make it. Even at a good price I think the 450 would also be more than I'd be willing to spend on it. I know where I can get a RC 62 ii for $300. I'm thinking of that one. It seems to me some this matching is taken to extremes. Even what I have now is made my same manufacturer in the same time period with basically the same design. It can't be that far off. A 62 ii seems like it would also work well for the same reason

I think I'm in the minority as I run my speakers with the grills on. The reference center I have matches very well cosmetically with the RP 280s. The RC 62 ii not so much. If I went that direction can that grey strip on the bottom be removed?

Can anyone compare the sound of the 62 and 450?

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Doesn't 62ii and the new RP stuff have different horn throat? I would guess that front stage would not be Timbre matched.

I agree with Scrappy on the 450. Especially when your center channel is the backbone of surround formats.

If you were primarily music- I'd say go small. But alas, you have 5.1 so.. Center channel needs to have some nuts.

My vote is on 450. NOT the 62ii

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Thanks for the reply. I don't think I want a wide CC like the 450. What I would want is a RP-260C but Klipsch doesn't make it. Even at a good price I think the 450 would also be more than I'd be willing to spend on it. I know where I can get a RC 62 ii for $300. I'm thinking of that one. It seems to me some this matching is taken to extremes. Even what I have now is made my same manufacturer in the same time period with basically the same design. It can't be that far off. A 62 ii seems like it would also work well for the same reason

I think I'm in the minority as I run my speakers with the grills on. The reference center I have matches very well cosmetically with the RP 280s. The RC 62 ii not so much. If I went that direction can that grey strip on the bottom be removed?

Can anyone compare the sound of the 62 and 450?

you came asking for advice. Wether you wanna listen or not is your call. The 62ii is a brighter center channel. I think it's better than the rp-450 but I personally would never mismatch my front three. Wether you wanna believe the hype on timber matching is also up to you. My opinion of course.
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Welcome to Klipsch forum !!

 

Center channel is all about HT experience and I'll say get the biggest and badest... I've a colleague who tried more than double digit center channel speakers, while I'm happy with the Klipsch RC-64 II and to the extent surprised when the big bang sound comes out of the center channel.

 

I've heard about timber matching, etc., but there is no dialogue coming out of 5.1 and higher up set up, so not sure, how and where it matters... I've tried my best, but left and right fronts are not that visible - audible in most 5.1 material out there from dialogue delivery aspect.

 

I've not heard of new Reference series but I don't see them comparable to RC-64 II just because of the sheer size of RC-64 II woofers and its performance !!

Edited by pite
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I'm trying to understand the timbre matching. My mains have much larger drivers and bigger horns than any of the centers being discussed. If I were to truly match my mains it seems a 3rd 280 would be the only way to do that.

I appreciate the advice and am not trying to be argumentative. I just don't understand how any center speaker with different driver tweeter and horn sizes are a match anyway. Is there an article that explains this?

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Welcome to the forums Scott.  As Scrappy has suggested, Timber Matching doesn't necessarily mean exact drivers.  When I had the RF-83's, they had three 8" woofers and the RC-64 had four 6" woofers yet they were voice matched and had the same 1.25" Titanium Tweeter.

 

Honestly, I always thought three identical speakers was unpractical and was skeptical of the hype of how much better it is to have all three identical speakers up front (if you have the ability).  Once I had the bought my LaScalas (video link and build thread in my signature)...I figured what the heck....I'll buy a third one and see for myself.  Within 2 weeks, I sold my long beloved RF-83 / RC-64.

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Exact same tweeter with two cross over points for the mid-range of RP-450C, with different size of woofers between RP-450C and RP-280F. If same technical design principle is applied then it'll be a "tappered array" for center channel to allow two cross over points at 500Hz and 1500Hz to better produce midrange. This might be the place where it'll drastically differ from RP-280F apart from the woofers.

 

That said, unless same frequencies of a given instrument(s), surround/directional effects and male/female voices are played from fronts and center channel it seems one can use a near about center channel when using in HT. Also, when used in HT, center channel produces 80-90% of dialogue-audio with left, right, and surrounds for effects-audio. When used in Stereo configuration center channel is out any way unless all five (in 5.x) including center is used to produce stereo music.

 

Due to dialogue heavy nature of function of the center channel it seems manufacturer typically go with smaller woofers with exact same tweeter to provide good high/mid range.

 

From technical aspect, there has to be a reason for having a tappered array (Kind a 3-way design) to a 2-way design of floor stander. I had a good discussion with a technical person at Klipsch and his view was that one needs to rely on the "Objective" testing while doing a comparison or otherwise testing as "Subjective" testing will be different to each. I believe, what he meant here is that if "Objective" testing doesn't show a given frequency in the measured spectrum then there's a good chance of one not hearing in the "Subjective" testing. Hope this analogy helps!

 

Not sure, if you have a way to hear them and see what you like !! Your ears are the "Final Judge" !!

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I really appreciate everyone's very helpful responses here.  Ive been kind of agonizing over this and have made my decision and ordered the RC 62II.  They both had their pros/cons.  

 

The pros of the 450 was that is was a cosmetic and timbre match to the RP-280s.  The con was more expensive and the big con for me is the footprint.   I just dont like the huge footprint of the 450C.  Its even 2" deeper than the RC64 II.  I really wish that there was a RP 260C.  I would have got in in a heartbeat.  

 

The Pros of the RC 62II is it is a great price, has a much more reasonable footprint for a center channel.  It has the (nearly) same 1" tweeter but a bigger horn.  People all seem to say it has fantastic clarity which is the main thing I'm looking for.  Even Scrappy had this to say on AVS

 

clearer sound with the 62ii. larger horn equals larger sound with the 62ii. front ported with the 62ii and that to me is a huge advantage. 450c is sweet looking. a mini 64 if you will but i believe the 62ii is the best bang for your buck center klipsch has. if you can still find it. 

 

The con with the 62 is it is not a cosmetic or timbre match to the RP 280.  I think the sound will be fine.  I've looked at this and it seems to me its not going to be an issue.  IME the center sound with dialog is rarely in the center and LR at the same time.  I think the biggest reason to have timbre match would be for multi channel music.  I listen to music in 2.1 so not a use case for me.  Its not like they are drastically different speaker designs from different manufacturers.  

 

In the end, mainly the smaller footprint, and better clarity won out over the cons.  I will report back how I like it once it is set up

 

Thanks again for putting up with me.   :)

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Ive been kind of agonizing over this and have made my decision and ordered the RC 62II.

"There is no such thing as a hard decision. You just don't like the decision you've already made."

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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The biggest issue for timbre match is when things pan across the front soundstage in movies. Especially people. When someone walks across the screen and the voice pans tone will change between series. While I'm glad you got the better center, to me home theater is most important so matching front three would have been most important. You could always keep an eye out for rf-62 or 82 gen ii. And if they are a great price, snag em and sell your rp-280's. Just a thought. Good snag though. It's a damn good center channel

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I really appreciate everyone's very helpful responses here. Ive been kind of agonizing over this and have made my decision and ordered the RC 62II. They both had their pros/cons.

The pros of the 450 was that is was a cosmetic and timbre match to the RP-280s. The con was more expensive and the big con for me is the footprint. I just dont like the huge footprint of the 450C. Its even 2" deeper than the RC64 II. I really wish that there was a RP 260C. I would have got in in a heartbeat.

The Pros of the RC 62II is it is a great price, has a much more reasonable footprint for a center channel. It has the (nearly) same 1" tweeter but a bigger horn. People all seem to say it has fantastic clarity which is the main thing I'm looking for. Even Scrappy had this to say on AVS

clearer sound with the 62ii. larger horn equals larger sound with the 62ii. front ported with the 62ii and that to me is a huge advantage. 450c is sweet looking. a mini 64 if you will but i believe the 62ii is the best bang for your buck center klipsch has. if you can still find it.

The con with the 62 is it is not a cosmetic or timbre match to the RP 280. I think the sound will be fine. I've looked at this and it seems to me its not going to be an issue. IME the center sound with dialog is rarely in the center and LR at the same time. I think the biggest reason to have timbre match would be for multi channel music. I listen to music in 2.1 so not a use case for me. Its not like they are drastically different speaker designs from different manufacturers.

In the end, mainly the smaller footprint, and better clarity won out over the cons. I will report back how I like it once it is set up

Thanks again for putting up with me. :)

I have a mismatched system currently and am awaiting a new set of mains which are also slightly mismatched. I think you hit the nail on the head about designs and manufacturers. Sure they arent exactly the same BUT you will still have a kick-*ss system with SIMILAR speakers all around. For me I am willing to live happily with mine. If you personally dont have an issue with it, thats all that matters. Dont get me wrong, in a perfect world I would have identical towers all around. The world I live in is far from perfect lol. Enjoy your klipsch!
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I have similar question to the original post on this thread. I have a pair RB-61 II speakers and am finally building a 5.1 setup. I'd like to get the best klipsch center channel that I can to "match" my existing stereo pair.  Would the RP-450C be a good choice? What about the RC-64 II? or is the 64 really designed to be matched with floor standing speakers.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice.

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I have similar question to the original post on this thread. I have a pair RB-61 II speakers and am finally building a 5.1 setup. I'd like to get the best klipsch center channel that I can to "match" my existing stereo pair.  Would the RP-450C be a good choice? What about the RC-64 II? or is the 64 really designed to be matched with floor standing speakers.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice.

IMO the RC 62II would match perfectly.  Same 6.5" drivers and 1" tweeter.  Horn looks to be same size as well.  Also a good cosmetic match if you have the grills on.

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I have similar question to the original post on this thread. I have a pair RB-61 II speakers and am finally building a 5.1 setup. I'd like to get the best klipsch center channel that I can to "match" my existing stereo pair.  Would the RP-450C be a good choice? What about the RC-64 II? or is the 64 really designed to be matched with floor standing speakers.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice.

grab the rc-62ii from crutchfied if you can while they last. will match perfect 

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