Fish Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I won't bore anyone with a big long story........But... I bought some klf 30's in very nice shape a little while back. They had the titanium upgrade on tweeters, easy to see. I have 20's and always thought the 20's sounded a little better I the upper freq since buying the 30's. I decided to do a few mods of my own and check out the 30's inside while at it. I took out the tweeters and noticed they fit backward in the cut out. I thought that was odd as it was hard to get out, then remembered someone put in titaniums. Later when I put the wires back on just as they came off I just happened to look and noticed the black was on + and green on -. I checked my factory 20's just to make sure but had a feeling green was not a -. I installed with black on -, fired them up, way better, very happy. I then removed the tweeter on the other speaker, same thing. I think when they removed the tweeter for upgrade the put the horn in upside down and reversed the wires, I dunno, but now they sound like I knew they should, made my day after an initial rant...... So.......some people just don't watch what they're doing. If you have anything and think it's not right, you may be right, just check it out yourself. As many of us do as much of our own repairs etc,,,,as we can on everything we own ya learn pretty quick you feel a lot better knowing you did it, and did it the right way...... Happy moddin' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I thought this was going to be a gripe session on the forum moderators I have a pair of KP 301-II's that had 2 different tweeter diaphragms as well as one II crossover and one I crossover when I got them. You never know what you're going to get when you buy second hand. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Was the wiring wrong on both speakers. If not, an easy way to check is just to look at both speaker divers and see if they are moving in and out in unison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) The sad thing is that after the guy made the mods, he probably used phrases like: 1. it opened up the sound 2. it took the veil off the sound 3. even my wife came out of the kitchen and commented on the "improvement" 4. it tightened up the bass 5. the sound stage was now huge please insert your own favorite phrases Edited March 27, 2015 by PrestonTom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Some XO designs have the +/- reversed. If you can find the schematic, you might want to confirm the factory specs. +++ My CF-4's have a green band/marker on the + wire to the CD, nothing marked on the other wire. I wonder why Klipsch used green instead of the usual red? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 The sad thing is that after the guy made the mods, he probably used phrases like: 1. it opened up the sound 2. it took the veil of the sound 3. even my wife came out of the kitchen and commented on the "improvement" 4. it tightened up the bass 5. the sound stage was now huge please insert your own favorite phrases Ha..I thought about that....or.. It may be why he sold a pair of mint 30's, even after the upgrade he was not happy with em. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 Some XO designs have the +/- reversed. If you can find the schematic, you might want to confirm the factory specs. +++ My CF-4's have a green band/marker on the + wire to the CD, nothing marked on the other wire. I wonder why Klipsch used green instead of the usual red? That's always possible, that's why I took out my 20's tweeter (same) and checked it. As to color, Red on woofer, off white on mid, green on high freq, others all black. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 Was the wiring wrong on both speakers. If not, an easy way to check is just to look at both speaker divers and see if they are moving in and out in unison. Yep...and horn installed upside down. On high freq horn the cut out is longer on one side to allow speaker connections and removal. I noticed they were hard to get out cause the connectors were binding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Favorite all time phrase: "I noticed a difference." Very helpful, thank you. This is kind of a pet peeve of mine too -- "difference" and "improvement" don't carry any real value since they don't tell you anything about what they're hearing. I've also heard someone else's "improvement" sound pretty mediocre (often). So, we're out phase at frequencies where I think you can put them back in phase by turning your head a little to the left or to the right -- am I wrong about this. I'm not saying this to mean that properly connecting the leads isn't important, but just as a point of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Was the wiring wrong on both speakers. If not, an easy way to check is just to look at both speaker divers and see if they are moving in and out in unison. Wouldn't it be a bit hard to see a tweeter diaphragm move in and out? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) So, we're out phase at frequencies where I think you can put them back in phase by turning your head a little to the left or to the right -- am I wrong about this. I'm not saying this to mean that properly connecting the leads isn't important, but just as a point of interest. Turning your head will not put them back in phase Dean especially on a vertically aligned loudspeaker system but depending on the frequency region you might be able to change the listener's height axis and compensate to some degree. In one polarity state the design will sum the midrange - tweeter drivers acoustically through the crossover region on the listener's axis. If one of the driver's polarity is reversed then there will be a cancelation null in the crossover region on the listener's axis. It's the acoustical summing of the drivers in the crossover region on the intended listener's axis of a loudspeaker that is important and the optimization of the summation through the crossover region between two drivers will depend on phase shifts due to different drivers, horns and crossover phase characteristics which will determine the optimum polarity orientation of the system's drivers. miketn Edited March 27, 2015 by mikebse2a3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I thought this was going to be a gripe session on the forum moderators Are you becoming paranoid Carl? Edited March 28, 2015 by BigStewMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Favorite all time phrase: "I noticed a difference." Very helpful, thank you. This is kind of a pet peeve of mine too -- "difference" and "improvement" don't carry any real value since they don't tell you anything about what they're hearing. I've also heard someone else's "improvement" sound pretty mediocre (often). So, we're out phase at frequencies where I think you can put them back in phase by turning your head a little to the left or to the right -- am I wrong about this. I'm not saying this to mean that properly connecting the leads isn't important, but just as a point of interest. I'm pretty sure "difference" and "better" means I don't have to set around with my head turned slightly, or sit at different elevations. Edited March 28, 2015 by Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I thought this was going to be a gripe session on the forum moderators Are you becoming paranoid Carl? Are you watching me??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I thought this was going to be a gripe session on the forum moderators Are you becoming paranoid Carl? Are you watching me??? moderately. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I reversed the wires of the Mid Horns on my KLF 30's Most members here think I'm crazy But I love the way they sound now compared to the flat dead lifeless sound of the factory wiring. Mind you I'm not sure what the factory wiring was as the makings on the mid driver are practically invisible and even then I don't know which polarity they are indicating. Edited March 29, 2015 by cradeldorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Read Mike's post again.Thanks Mike. It didn't sound right when a certain person said this to me, but it didn't sound completely impossible either so I let it go. Nice job on that post. It's hard to get this across to people as they're slapping their parts together. Edited March 28, 2015 by Crankysoldermeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 3. even my wife came out of the kitchen and commented on the "improvement" I was at an audio store here in Omaha, the sales rep was trying to sell me some high end power cables. Yes he used that exact same statement when trying to convince me to purchase a $150.00 power cord. So.......some people just don't watch what they're doing No they don't, heck I could have done this before and not realized it . Good thing I sold those horrible sounding speakers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I won't bore anyone with a big long story........But... I bought some klf 30's in very nice shape a little while back. They had the titanium upgrade on tweeters, easy to see. I have 20's and always thought the 20's sounded a little better I the upper freq since buying the 30's. I decided to do a few mods of my own and check out the 30's inside while at it. I took out the tweeters and noticed they fit backward in the cut out. I thought that was odd as it was hard to get out, then remembered someone put in titaniums. Later when I put the wires back on just as they came off I just happened to look and noticed the black was on + and green on -. I checked my factory 20's just to make sure but had a feeling green was not a -. I installed with black on -, fired them up, way better, very happy. Note: KLF 20 schematic showing reversed tweeter polarity. You will want to confirm which color of wire is actually connected to the Inputs negative trace of the circuit board because Klipsch could be doing the polarity swap at the circuit board instead of at the Tweeter itself. The KLF 30 also has reversed polarity to the tweeter. Again you will want to confirm which color of wire is actually connected to the Inputs negative trace of the circuit board because Klipsch could be doing the polarity swap at the circuit board instead of at the Tweeter itself. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I won't bore anyone with a big long story........But... I bought some klf 30's in very nice shape a little while back. They had the titanium upgrade on tweeters, easy to see. I have 20's and always thought the 20's sounded a little better I the upper freq since buying the 30's. I decided to do a few mods of my own and check out the 30's inside while at it. Just in case I would suggest you confirm the actual (+) and (-) terminals of the Titanium diaphragms and not go by any original markings on the body of the tweeter if used by Klipsch for polarity indication of the original diaphragms. miketn Edited March 28, 2015 by mikebse2a3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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