Ray_pierrewit Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I've recently reintroduced my 80s LaScalas into our living room and, much to my satisfaction, managed to make the wife love them as well, though that is a different thread altogether... They've replaced the Forté I which had been our system's mainstay for the last 5 years. I feel as though they're finally setup up properly, better than ever to be honest. Now I'd like to get my system to dig a little deeper, at least as deep as the Forté. It's a dedicated 2 channel music system, so no need for an asburd amount of subbass. Sor far, I'm leaning towards the bass bin mod, which I've followed on and off since it first appeared on this forum. I know, Claude, that I should try the Quarterpies, but I don't want my wife hating these after all my hard work intergrating them into the decor... one day surely. This got my thinking of the Forté and their passive woofers. Would it be interesting to mount a passive woofer on the doghouse access panel, and have it downfiring? This would clearly mean puting some sort of higher feet on the LaScala. I wouldn't even know where to begin, as far as measuring the pressure and the size and weight of the passive subs, any thoughts or contributions? I'm willing to try it out if I can find a proper passive. Just saying. dna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Why not? For that matter, what about a couple small passives on the front instead and turn it into something like a tapped horn? It might be goofy looking, but it would be a fun experiment and you wouldn't need no stinking risers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_pierrewit Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 I guess this answers my question: "The PR should never be down-firing, the high Mms will cause the diaphragm to be displaced downward immediately. The spiders will eventually be stretched permanently by this treatment, and the unit will need to be rebuilt." (from www.aespeakers.com/PRFAQ.php ). Ok then, the next question could be: rather than port the modded bass bin with 4" ports, could a backward facing passive radiator, something like the Forté, work? Maybe two small ones The above website has alot of info about choosing the proper PR, though like I said, I don't know a QTS from a Xmax. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_pierrewit Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 Here is a PR Calculator. http://www.mh-audio.nl/PassiveRadiator.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Why not do the obvious, and just add a sub (or two)? I don't know your budget or your WAF, but the DIY 18" subs seem very popular these days. I think many LS owners here could give you some guidance. Mustang Guy (directly upstream) has experience with traditional direct radiating subs and he has DIY horn loaded subs (Table Tuba) he alternates with his 6 La Scala setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_pierrewit Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 Why not do the obvious, and just add a sub (or two)? I don't know your budget or your WAF, but the DIY 18" subs seem very popular these days. I think many LS owners here could give you some guidance. Mustang Guy (directly upstream) has experience with traditional direct radiating subs and he has DIY horn loaded subs (Table Tuba) he alternates with his 6 La Scala setup. Actually, this was my original plan. I was eyeing out the Bil Fitzmaurice 18" subs. For now though, it'll likely be the traditional bass bin mod until budget and WAF allow a couple of subs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I guess this answers my question: "The PR should never be down-firing, the high Mms will cause the diaphragm to be displaced downward immediately. The spiders will eventually be stretched permanently by this treatment, and the unit will need to be rebuilt." (from www.aespeakers.com/PRFAQ.php ). Ok then, the next question could be: rather than port the modded bass bin with 4" ports, could a backward facing passive radiator, something like the Forté, work? Maybe two small ones The above website has alot of info about choosing the proper PR, though like I said, I don't know a QTS from a Xmax. This is what I said, however, there is not a back, there are two fronts in a LaScala. The K-33 woofer is facing the back of the cabinet into a flared horn. If you put your radiators in the front of the LaScala, they would be vertical, they may or may not provide added bass as in tapped horn, and they would look like giant nostrils. Who wouldn't want that? Edited March 28, 2015 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I take back what I said, they don't look like nostrils. It's more like bird eyes: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Build a tuba table. It matches the La Scala sound perfectly and you don't have to cut holes in your speakers. That was the original purpose of mine and you couldn't hear where one transistioned to the other. Just good horn bass down to the upper 20 HZ range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I take back what I said, they don't look like nostrils. It's more like bird eyes: Don't some lizards squirt blood out through their eyes to thwart off a predator (the wife)?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_pierrewit Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 Build a tuba table. It matches the La Scala sound perfectly and you don't have to cut holes in your speakers. That was the original purpose of mine and you couldn't hear where one transistioned to the other. Just good horn bass down to the upper 20 HZ range. So a single tuba table can suffice and mates well with the LaScalas, eh? I'm using a Scott 299b which has been totally reworked by Craig at NOSvalves, so how would I hook the sub up to the amp? It's got a center channel out, would that work? How difficult is the build, and how much can I expect it to cost? Thanks in advance! dna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/148307-lascala-mods/?hl=%2Bdjk+%2Bvented+%2Blascala https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/136433-la-scala-bass-bin-modification-question/page-2?hl=%2Bdjk+%2Bvented+%2Blascala#entry1556320 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/108425-la-scala-bass-reflex-mod/?hl=+djk%20+vented%20+lascala https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/64334-bass-reflex-mod-for-lascala/?hl=%2Bdjk+%2Bvented+%2Blascala#entry643084 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/211-electro-voice-woofers-in-lascala/?hl=%2Bdjk+%2Bvented+%2Blascala#entry2618 There are lots more like this for you to check out and lots of comments from those who have done this modification you just need to check in the archives. Dennis "DJK" came up with this mod in the first place so he is your best go to guy. Edited March 28, 2015 by moray james Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Build a tuba table. It matches the La Scala sound perfectly and you don't have to cut holes in your speakers. That was the original purpose of mine and you couldn't hear where one transistioned to the other. Just good horn bass down to the upper 20 HZ range. So a single tuba table can suffice and mates well with the LaScalas, eh? I'm using a Scott 299b which has been totally reworked by Craig at NOSvalves, so how would I hook the sub up to the amp? It's got a center channel out, would that work? How difficult is the build, and how much can I expect it to cost? Thanks in advance! dna How easy to build is totally based on your skill set going into it. Google tuba table and you will find lots of info on it. You can easily get the materials including amp for $400 or less. The center out on your amp will be perfect for it, sub amps have built in crossovers. There are also other horn sub designs as well, I just mentioned the tuba table because of its relatively compact size and higher WAF when finished nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) If you can build a Table Tuba for $400 including amp, that sounds like the deal of the century, especially for your Scala's. I paid $300 for my Klipsch RW-12d and I think almost anybody here would tell you the TT would tromp my RW 12d, then chew it up and spit it out. The point to me is that you are already going to have a fixed cost for two passive speaker drivers ($200?) and more money and effort making the mods to the LS. Why not add a couple hundred more and have a big sound to match your LS's. It's hard to describe the sound if you haven't heard it (which is what everyone else told me ). I don't know if you've ever been up close and personal with a real tuba, but within about 10 feet they resonate your chest cavity. The TT can make the difference between hearing a simple note that sounds like a tuba, and actually having the visceral effect of having the tuba in the room. I've heard LS's at Mustang Guy's Speaker Ranch with the TT TUBA HOME THEATER (thanks Tromprof) and the sound is beyond great. The horn driven Tuba Home Theater (the two light colored boxes on the right) has a sound that matches the intensity of the LS's (two in black on the left side). Edit: (See Tromprof's note directly downstream for the explanation of my goof) Edited March 28, 2015 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 The above picture is a "tuba home theater," not a tuba table. The THT is the tuba table's big brother and goes lower and is bigger. Great sub but I don't want the OP scared by the size. The tuba table is a goof chunk smaller and can be made to look like .... a table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 The above picture is a "tuba home theater," not a tuba table. The THT is the tuba table's big brother and goes lower and is bigger. Great sub but I don't want the OP scared by the size. The tuba table is a good chunk smaller and can be made to look like .... a table. Logical statement sounds logical! Sorry about my goof. Thanks for the clarification. "He who corrects my error giveth me a gold coin." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_pierrewit Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 The above picture is a "tuba home theater," not a tuba table. The THT is the tuba table's big brother and goes lower and is bigger. Great sub but I don't want the OP scared by the size. The tuba table is a goof chunk smaller and can be made to look like .... a table. Yeah, I noticed the above subs were huge, they made the Lascalas look reasonably sized. The table is something like 30" x 30"x 16", so it could look good in my living room. In Jim Smith's great "How to Get Better Sound" book, he recommends only ever using stereo subs for a music only system. He claims that, even if subs are indeed omnidirectional, a single sub somehow ruins accoustic recordings. What is the concensus around here as far as stereo vs. mono subs for music? I suppose I could start with one, then when I can afford a second one, build it and place the Lascalas on top, thereby raising them. The 30"x30" footprint should be acceptable as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Build a tuba table. It matches the La Scala sound perfectly and you don't have to cut holes in your speakers. That was the original purpose of mine and you couldn't hear where one transistioned to the other. Just good horn bass down to the upper 20 HZ range. So a single tuba table can suffice and mates well with the LaScalas, eh? I'm using a Scott 299b which has been totally reworked by Craig at NOSvalves, so how would I hook the sub up to the amp? It's got a center channel out, would that work? How difficult is the build, and how much can I expect it to cost? Thanks in advance! dna The derived center channel of the 299b would do the trick to the single sub amp which I did successfully for a year or so. I personally agree with Jim Smith about two subs. I would go as far to say that I'd rather have NO sub than just one. I think there are more than a few here that wouldn't agree with that but maybe it works better for them in their rooms than it does in mine. That said... there is nothing wrong with starting with a single and building a 2nd later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) The derived center channel of the 299b would do the trick to the single sub amp which I did successfully for a year or so. I personally agree with Jim Smith about two subs. I would go as far to say that I'd rather have NO sub than just one. I think there are more than a few here that wouldn't agree with that but maybe it works better for them in their rooms than it does in mine. Is he talking about two MONO subs, or two subs running off the stereo channels? I presume two mono subs. That said... there is nothing wrong with starting with a single and building a 2nd later. And, I agree with you about building a single sub first. I have a single, and no complaints, even though I know "the book" says to run 2, 3, or 4. Edited March 29, 2015 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 yep you don't want feet on a lascala. keep it flat on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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