Moderators Youthman Posted March 28, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 28, 2015 I ask that question because that's exactly what my ears are hearing. This morning, I spent 45 minutes going back and forth in my 2ch setup (see signature) between the internal amps in the HK 3490 and the Acurus A200. When I hook up just the HK and close my eyes, when I point to where the edge of the sound is and open my eyes, my fingers are pointing almost directly at the RF-7ii's. But when I hook up the Acurus A200 amp and do the same thing, when I open my eyes, my fingers are pointed 4ft wider than each speaker. That's 8' more in width that I'm hearing. I didn't think that was possible but after about 15 times switching back and forth between just the receiver and the receiver + amp, my ears heard the same thing every time. Adding the amp gave more presence, wider soundstage and just an overall more encompassing sound. Slight added bass but really about the same. I only saw 1db difference in the bass between the two. Just wondering if anyone else has had the same experience. Here are a few pics of the room. The living room is 15' x 25' with 12' ceilings and opens up into the home office, kitchen, dining room and breakfast area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 You know, I would think at least more defined soundstage from my experience. Wider, yes I suppose that too. Nice 2 channel setup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim. Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 When I first added my B&K Ref4430 to my Onkyo TX-SR705, besides the added punch and detail, the soundstage grew substantially. Noticeably wide and deep. It took on an almost 3 dimensional sound. I eventually replaced the B&K's with Acurus amps and it became even more pronounced. Not as night and day as with the receiver only to adding the B&K's but still noticeable. Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) "Just wondering if anyone else has had the same experience" In a word, Yes. Inversely proportional to the size of my wallet. However watch what you ask for. Solving this was not the problem in my case. I went with a Pro system as most know, Tuning it is the problem from day one. Day three into my tuning, my first Neighbor Complaint, so for the last year im frustrated with tweeking a knob or two in constant fear of the cops showing up. so here i sit on a system i can Barely use. Good thing we are moving to Nevada Edited March 28, 2015 by minermark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 larger soundstage? I think that is only one of the many things a different amplifier might create 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 You're hearing things. Rut roh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 You're hearing things. Rut roh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Good thing we are moving to Nevada Area 51, here we come. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I recently added an Emotiva XPA-2 (500 wpc) amp to my Yamaha AVR, the difference was astounding. Yes, I believe the soundstage is larger. There is definitely a more refined quicker bass, even the miss/highs are much better, more clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 28, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 28, 2015 Nice 2 channel setup. Thank you sir. Trust your ears. Amps do sound different, sometimes the change is minute, other times significant. I've compared a few amps to themselves and didn't hear a noticeable difference between them but receiver vs receiver + amp I am hearing a noticeable difference between the two. added punch and detail, the soundstage grew substantially Surprisingly, the HK by itself has a very good amount of bottom end so there is only very minor difference in the bass performance. The soundstage however was substantial. Not sure yet about the amount of detail. Definitely not a night and day difference overall but a very noticeable difference. Complaint, so for the last year im frustrated with tweeking a knob or two in constant fear of the cops showing up When my wife and I first were married, we lived in an apartment. Had a cop knock on my door saying my upstairs neighbor called in a complaint. We were watching Operation Dumbo Drop for goodness sake! LOL So I feel your pain bro. You're hearing things. Rut roh. LOL....I bet you deal with that debate on a daily basis Dean. Guess it's part of the business you are in though. I recently added an Emotiva XPA-2 (500 wpc) amp to my Yamaha AVR, the difference was astounding. Yes, I believe the soundstage is larger. There is definitely a more refined quicker bass, even the miss/highs are much better, more clear. Seems like several have had similar results as I have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Youth, The answer to your actual question is NO! Widened sound stage, etc. is a result of the speakers you are using. You are looking at the question backwards..... What the amp CAN do is either ADD distortion OR not reproduce things as faithfully. The later is what you are experiencing in LESS of the possible soundstage, NOT more soundstage than the original! Rog 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I wouldn't have believed it previously but I heard my same speakers on a nice amp and the sound was huge, nothing like what I'm used to even with a top shelf Marantz receiver. See the "DYNAMICS" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 28, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 28, 2015 Some say you need to have a blind A/B test to have conclusive results but I don't think that's necessarily the case. There is no doubt I'm hearing a difference between the AVR and AVR + Amp combo. And for me to hear a difference, that's saying something because I don't have what I would consider a "Critical Ear". I have trouble explaining what I'm hearing. People make statements about having better dynamics, warm sounding etc and all I can do is use simple terms like more detailed, better bass, wider soundstage, clearer midrange. Maybe it's because I'm just a simple guy using simple, layman's terms to express what I'm hearing. I guess I've always been like that though. Even when I preach at my church, "I put the cookies on the bottom shelf so everyone can reach them". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 28, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 28, 2015 Roger, that's an interesting way of looking at it. If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying the HK is reducing the effective soundstage while the HK + Acurus Amp is allowing the full soundstage to be revealed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Roger, that's an interesting way of looking at it. If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying the HK is reducing the effective soundstage while the HK + Acurus Amp is allowing the full soundstage to be revealed? Exactly! Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Nice 2 channel setup. Thank you sir. Trust your ears. Amps do sound different, sometimes the change is minute, other times significant. I've compared a few amps to themselves and didn't hear a noticeable difference between them but receiver vs receiver + amp I am hearing a noticeable difference between the two. added punch and detail, the soundstage grew substantially Surprisingly, the HK by itself has a very good amount of bottom end so there is only very minor difference in the bass performance. The soundstage however was substantial. Not sure yet about the amount of detail. Definitely not a night and day difference overall but a very noticeable difference. Complaint, so for the last year im frustrated with tweeking a knob or two in constant fear of the cops showing up When my wife and I first were married, we lived in an apartment. Had a cop knock on my door saying my upstairs neighbor called in a complaint. We were watching Operation Dumbo Drop for goodness sake! LOL So I feel your pain bro. You're hearing things. Rut roh. LOL....I bet you deal with that debate on a daily basis Dean. Guess it's part of the business you are in though. I recently added an Emotiva XPA-2 (500 wpc) amp to my Yamaha AVR, the difference was astounding. Yes, I believe the soundstage is larger. There is definitely a more refined quicker bass, even the miss/highs are much better, more clear. Seems like several have had similar results as I have. Wile tuning last year, Patsy Cline,(mostly over 40 neighbors) because the Vocals are really good, however my devised plan is the week i move i WILL be cranking VanHalen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Youth, Think of it this way; Have you ever heard someone saying it was as if a veil was lifted from their speakers..... Think about that. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I have to agree with Roger. There is either something more or something less getting to the speakers from the two different amps. A pink noise graph from the LP of each might reveal which frequencies are either getting amplified more or not amplified as well in each AMP. Frequencies get more directional in proportion to their increase. It seems the more accurate AMP is the HK because you point right at them, while the Acurus is the less accurate amp, probably because it has more overhead to add punch to the bottom end. It isn't necessarily distortion, it might simply be a little built in gain on the Acurus. Volume could also be the culprit. Are you listening at identical volumes? Louder will take advantage of reflections more. Actually it isn't more, but it is at a level your ears can hear. Edited March 28, 2015 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Runnin With the Devil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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