Klipsch Premiere crossover and bracing/driver pics?

[ninjai18]

This is one thing I wish Klipsch would do more. Many of us gear heads are really interested in seeing those crossovers, driver magnets, and internal layout/bracing, as these things really effect sound quality. I would love to buy some Premiere 280F towers down the road, but would like to know if they're still using the grainy sounding wire would resistors they have traditionally used. We really shouldn't have to spend Palladium level prices to get reasonable quality resistors and caps in them.

Honestly, it would be awesome if they would spend a few extra bucks and just go to something like Mills resistors and quality larger metalized poly caps. Anyone else with me on this? I think we need to bring it to their attention. With the massive difference it made on my RF-3 ii system's performance by simply spending a few bucks and upgrading the resistors/caps on them, I can't see why Klipsch wouldn't just do this themselves to begin with. It would yield very very high ratings in professional and consumer reviews. The improvement is THAT noticeable. I went to Fry's to listen to some Premieres, and while they sound great, they don't hold a candle to my newly XO upgraded RF-3 II's. (I know, the room and setup is different, but I could still tell)

I know I know, people are gonna say it's to "save money", but it could also increase sales by beating out the sound quality of other manufacturers handily.

Edited March 29, 2015 by ninjai18

[Youthman]

Anyone else with me on this? I think we need to bring it to their attention.

Let's be a bit rational about this.....I'm pretty certain Klipsch is fully aware of the quality caps and resistors they put in their speakers.  I somehow do not think they will be surprised if we "bring it to their attention".  

 

Besides....if they make their xovers too nice, it will put Bob, Al and Dean out of business.   

 

With the massive difference it made on my RF-3 ii system's performance

Are these are the ones that sound better than stock RF-7ii's?  Still find that pill a bit large to swallow. 

[Scrappydue]

Anyone else with me on this? I think we need to bring it to their attention.

Let's be a bit rational about this.....I'm pretty certain Klipsch is fully aware of the quality caps and resistors they put in their speakers. I somehow do not think they will be surprised if we "bring it to their attention".

Besides....if they make their xovers too nice, it will put Bob, Al and Dean out of business.

With the massive difference it made on my RF-3 ii system's performance

Are these are the ones that sound better than stock RF-7ii's? Still find that pill a bit large to swallow.

ditto again

[ninjai18]

 

Anyone else with me on this? I think we need to bring it to their attention.

Let's be a bit rational about this.....I'm pretty certain Klipsch is fully aware of the quality caps and resistors they put in their speakers.  I somehow do not think they will be surprised if we "bring it to their attention".

 

Besides....if they make their xovers too nice, it will put Bob, Al and Dean out of business. 

 

 

 

With the massive difference it made on my RF-3 ii system's performance

Are these are the ones that sound better than stock RF-7ii's?  Still find that pill a bit large to swallow. 

 

 

They certainly do to my ear.  I'm not sure it's irrational to ask these questions. Why wouldn't someone want to know what parts are going into their product? And why is it unreasonable to expect them to upgrade parts across new releases? I find it strange that I keep getting flak from people every time I ask any detailed questions about the internals of their products... Odd. It sorta reminds of the Nintendo fanboys that jump down your throat when you dare ask the hardware specs of one of their consoles.

Edited March 30, 2015 by ninjai18

[Youthman]

They certainly do to my ear.

I'm not saying they don't sound fantastic and I think upgrading xovers do make a difference.  I'm just thinking mere physics would limit the ability of the RF-3ii, no matter what crossover it is using.  (ie 1" tweeter vs 1.75" tweeter, 8" vs 10" woofers, size of cabinet, 6" horn vs 8" horn).

 

I'm not sure it's irrational to ask these questions.

Nothing irrational about asking questions....my statement about being irrational is the thought that Klipsch isn't aware that they could have chosen to use higher quality parts in their xovers.

 

Why wouldn't someone want to know what parts are going into their product?

Nothing wrong with asking Klipsch what type of parts they used on say the RP speakers you are considering.

 

And why is it unreasonable to expect them to upgrade parts across new releases?

Klipsch does upgrade parts with new releases.  It's not reasonable for us to expect them to upgrade the parts that we feel are the most important.     Klipsch engineers have to make a TON of decisions when developing a new series of speakers.  I'm sure sometimes they upgrade the xovers while other times, they upgrade the tweeter or other components.

 

I find it strange that I keep getting flak from people every time I ask any detailed questions about the internals of their products...

Again, I don't see a problem with you wanting to know what type of internal components are used inside the speaker.  Expecting Klipsch to upgrade certain components just isn't realistic.  Making a suggestion or asking them to consider it in future builds would seem acceptable.

 

Odd. It sorta reminds of the Nintendo fanboys that jump down your throat when you dare ask the hardware specs of one of their consoles.

I guess we are all fanboys to some extent or we wouldn't be here in the forums every day.  

[ninjai18]

Right, but my statement also wasn't to say that they were not aware that they could use better parts. What I meant by "bringing it to their attention" was a polite way of saying "hey, we wouldn't mind spending a few extra bucks on the speakers for you to put much better sounding resistors/caps in them."

 

It really does matter what parts we want them to upgrade, as we are the ones buying and living with the products. I am aware they do upgrade other parts, but to my knowledge, they have not once upgraded the resistors to something similar in performance to Mills resistors. In fact, my father-in-law was considering buying an entire RF-7II system directly from Klipsch, but changed his mind due to the grainy hot "S" sound they make, which in turn, is due to the low quality grainy sounding ceramic resistors. Funny, that once I played my new upgraded XO's he is now reconsidering again and plans to do the XO upgrade if he does go with Klipsch. I have heard and met many people that complain about this issue, as well.

Edited March 30, 2015 by ninjai18

[Youthman]

And for your pleasure, here are the stock crossovers in the RF-7ii.

 

 

 

Some Woofer Internals

 

 

 

 

I'll be using Dayton metallized polypropylenes, bypassed with Dayton film and tin foils. If these caps are good enough for the 60th Anniversary Edition of the Klipschorn, then I think it's probably okay to use them here. The bypassing treatment is a JBL thing, and we all know how bad their stuff sucks, right? : )

I took the one of the networks to Parts Express with me, and had them pull a few brands that were in consideration, the Daytons just looked like they would present less issues.

I wish Klipsch would get away from those oval capacitors.

Note #4 http://marc.info/?l=basslist&m=101831073029354&w=2

 

Dean is with you on the desire for upgraded crossover parts.

 

Here are shots from Dean's workbench of my DeanG Upgraded Crossovers for my RF-7ii

 

 

 

 

[Youthman]

And here are the photos I took after receiving them back from Dean.

 

 

 

 

[Youthman]

Right, but my statement also wasn't to say that they were not aware that they could use better parts. What I meant by "bringing it to their attention" was a polite way of saying "hey, we wouldn't mind spending a few extra bucks on the speakers for you to put much better sounding resistors/caps in them."

 

I misunderstood your statement then. 

 

 

It really does matter what parts we want them to upgrade, as we are the ones buying and living with the products. I am aware they do upgrade other parts, but to my knowledge, they have not once upgrade the resistors to something similar in performance to Mills resistors. In fact, my father-in-law was considering buying an entire RF-7II system directly from Klipsch, but changed his mind due to the grainy hot "S" sound they make, which in turn, is due to the low quality grainy sounding ceramic resistors. Funny, that once I played my new upgraded XO's he is now reconsidering again and plans to do the XO upgrade if he does go with Klipsch. I have heard and met many people that complain about this issue, as well.

 

I myself am not have very little knowledge about crossovers but realize there are better components that can be used that do effect the sound of the speaker.  To my ears, it wasn't what I heard, it was what I didn't hear.  Not a night and day difference but a difference nonetheless. 

 

If you ever find yourself having trouble sleeping, this 26 page drama filled DeanG RF-7ii (From Start to Finish) thread might help. 

[ninjai18]

Seeing those pics raises another question, why doesn't Klipsch simply place one of the air core coils at a right angle? Everyone who knows anything about coils will tell you that it is always better than having them laying flat right next to each other. It causes interference and cross talk between the inductors. This is basic stuff.

Edited March 30, 2015 by ninjai18

[Youthman]

That would be a question for the engineers. 

[Youthman]

Apparently the engineers at B&W don't know the basics either as their coils on their $24,000 800D are not at right angles either.  Link 

 

[mikebse2a3]

Seeing those pics raises another question, why doesn't Klipsch simply place one of the air core coils at a right angle? Everyone who knows anything about coils will tell you that it is always better than having them laying flat right next to each other. It causes interference and cross talk between the inductors. This is basic stuff.

 

I can assure you they are aware of how coils can interact.

 

 

If you ever get a chance to visit Hope or Indy and talk with the engineers some of your doubts might be removed.

 

 

miketn

Edited March 30, 2015 by mikebse2a3

[ninjai18]

 

Seeing those pics raises another question, why doesn't Klipsch simply place one of the air core coils at a right angle? Everyone who knows anything about coils will tell you that it is always better than having them laying flat right next to each other. It causes interference and cross talk between the inductors. This is basic stuff.

 

I can assure you they are aware of how coils can interact.

 

 

If you ever get a chance to visit Hope or Indy and talk with the engineers some of your doubts might be removed.

 

 

miketn

 

 

These are not doubts, it is well known that placing coils laying down right next to one another is terrible design decision.

[ninjai18]

Apparently the engineers at B&W don't know the basics either as their coils on their $24,000 800D are not at right angles either.  Link

 

 

With respect, those are much further apart than the RF-7II coils. Not remotely an apples to apples. And yes, even fancy B&W speakers can use refinement. Placing one at a right angle is an almost unbreakable rule of crossover layouts, unless they are far enough apart, which the RF-7II's clearly are not.

Edited March 30, 2015 by ninjai18

[Paducah Home Theater]

They certainly do to my ear.  I'm not sure it's irrational to ask these questions. Why wouldn't someone want to know what parts are going into their product? And why is it unreasonable to expect them to upgrade parts across new releases? I find it strange that I keep getting flak from people every time I ask any detailed questions about the internals of their products... Odd. It sorta reminds of the Nintendo fanboys that jump down your throat when you dare ask the hardware specs of one of their consoles.

I think it's akin to saying we should notify Chevy that they would see huge improvements for only a few bucks more if they outfitted all new Corvettes with K&N filters, because maybe they just aren't aware.

[Paducah Home Theater]

my father-in-law was considering buying an entire RF-7II system directly from Klipsch, but changed his mind due to the grainy hot "S" sound they make, which in turn, is due to the low quality grainy sounding ceramic resistors.

Yes, every time I turn on my RF-7ii's I think "damn hot grainy S sounding ceramic resistors".  

[Paducah Home Theater]

Seeing those pics raises another question, why doesn't Klipsch simply place one of the air core coils at a right angle? Everyone who knows anything about coils will tell you that it is always better than having them laying flat right next to each other. It causes interference and cross talk between the inductors. This is basic stuff.

 

How are you going to situate two circles at a right angle?  The right angle thing came from using long iron core coils, they would be perpendicular to each other.  I suppose you could stand one up on its end if really necessary but that's not really called a right angle.  I have never seen a factory crossover do this.  

[ninjai18]

 

They certainly do to my ear.  I'm not sure it's irrational to ask these questions. Why wouldn't someone want to know what parts are going into their product? And why is it unreasonable to expect them to upgrade parts across new releases? I find it strange that I keep getting flak from people every time I ask any detailed questions about the internals of their products... Odd. It sorta reminds of the Nintendo fanboys that jump down your throat when you dare ask the hardware specs of one of their consoles.

I think it's akin to saying we should notify Chevy that they would see huge improvements for only a few bucks more if they outfitted all new Corvettes with K&N filters, because maybe they just aren't aware.

 

No, it's not.

[ninjai18]

 

Seeing those pics raises another question, why doesn't Klipsch simply place one of the air core coils at a right angle? Everyone who knows anything about coils will tell you that it is always better than having them laying flat right next to each other. It causes interference and cross talk between the inductors. This is basic stuff.

 

How are you going to situate two circles at a right angle?  The right angle thing came from using long iron core coils, they would be perpendicular to each other.  I suppose you could stand one up on its end if really necessary but that's not really called a right angle.  I have never seen a factory crossover do this.  

 

Standing one up is referred to as a "right angle."