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Khorn bass bin as a subwoofer


finallygotmyheresies

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Is there a preferred location for a IB setup? Low on a wall close to the floor, high on the wall near the ceiling? Maybe in the ceiling close to a wall?  This isnt the  type of thing you want to be testing in different spots.  I gotta get the exact measurement of my living room but I can say it is roughly 20' x 15' with one side open to the kitchen.

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Please explain the issue with having subs behind you.

I have all four of my subs behind my couch because that's where they sound best. I have two built into a wall to the right rear and two tucked into a corner to the left rear.

I have tried different locations (including along the front) but they don't sound as good in that spot. I have Klipschorns so my front corners are occupied and placing them next to the Klipschorns does not work well.

I have two sets of the KW-120-THX that are supposed to be placed side by side for best results, and I don't have the room for four of these things along my front wall so behind the couch they go!

The bass fills the room nicely and there is no way to tell where the subs are.

I respectfully disagree with your comment about subs being behind you and yet you don't have a problem with subs being above you. With proper set-up there is no reason you can't put subs behind you. Or above you.

I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if movie theaters often have subs behind you. And how many concert venues have subs floating in mid air? What works, works. Just sayin'.

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The bass fills the room nicely and there is no way to tell where the subs are.

 

That's really all that matters.  I've always been able to localize them behind me no matter how low they're crossed over.  What did you use to adjust phase?  My drivers are in the same plane as my mains but yes, they are elevated.  If you never looked up, you couldn't tell they were there.  I would have no issues with subs behind you if there were also subs in front of you.

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This isnt the type of thing you want to be testing in different spots. 

 

You can do a sub crawl only it would have to be with a ladder LOL.  I don't know exactly what you'd call that though.  If you have 2 possible locations, put a sub in your main listening position, play some bass heavy material, get a ladder and put your head in the 2 spots you're thinking about putting your IB.  Whichever one reads the loudest with an SPL meter and sounds the best is where you put your IB.

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I have four subs, two in front and two behind.  Sometimes I only run the front or back listening to music.  If I closed my eyes, I can't distinguish which subs are on.  The XO is 80 Hz.   I think it all depends on setup if rear subs can be localized.

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I have the crossover set to 80 and I'm using two KA-1000-THX amps which have all of the controls right on the front which makes it super nice when making adjustments.

The THX Ultra2 system is nice because the subs are front ported so you can tuck them away into cabinets if you want to (which I did for two of them-makes for a nice, custom look) and the phase, crossover, volume adjustments are right on the amps. I have the sub crossover set to external on my pre-amp so I could tweak the subs quite easily.

I am by no means an expert on this topic, just a guy that has a hobby and enjoys listening to some sweet tunes. It has taken me a very long time to tune the subs in but I'm not using any measuring equipment, just playing with things until it sounds right to my ears.

I am using a trick that I know most people on here would disagree with by setting my main speakers to large instead of small. I think it actually helps with the "localization" of the subwoofers by bringing some bass to the front of the room. Does that make sense? I just can't bring myself to set Klipschorns to "small".

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I am using a trick that I know most people on here would disagree with by setting my main speakers to large instead of small. I think it actually helps with the "localization" of the subwoofers by bringing some bass to the front of the room. Does that make sense? I just can't bring myself to set Klipschorns to "small".

 

It might actually help smooth out some room nodes by supplying different sources of bass throughout the room.

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To me, that's not a subwoofer. In my own distorted would, I believe that a sub should reach close to 20Hz.

 

Disagree philosophically.  A "subwoofer" IMHO should be compare to what it provides with the speakers it's working with.  If it gets you another octave or so, it's a subwoofer. 

 

In my case, as you mentioned, I did not have "high fidelity" with only my K'horns due to my obsession with the pipe organ.  Many instruments have pipes good to C0, which is 16.5hz.  That is "whumpa whumpa" like with the electronic stuff but can be extremely textured and quiet and you have to have an easy reach to it for it to sound realistic. 

 

All depend on what one listens to.  If finallygotmyherisies only listens to chamber music, acoustic jazz, and such the Klipsch bass bin is all he needs.  If they are also used with movies or modern stuff with a lot of synthetic bass, then more.  It isn't just quality that is defined as fitness for intended use, it is also fidelity.  It's faithful if it does the job you want it to do. 

 

Dave

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It might actually help smooth out some room nodes by supplying different sources of bass throughout the room.

That is exactly what it does. When the mains are set to small you can start to notice where the bass is coming from, but setting the mains to large (and then adjusting the crossovers on the subs accordingly because it does create some issues by setting the fronts to large so you have smooth it out), you bring some bass to the front and it just sounds better.

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I am using a trick that I know most people on here would disagree with by setting my main speakers to large instead of small. I think it actually helps with the "localization" of the subwoofers by bringing some bass to the front of the room. Does that make sense? I just can't bring myself to set Klipschorns to "small".

 

It might actually help smooth out some room nodes by supplying different sources of bass throughout the room.

 

 

HELPFUL HINT: The "Large" vs. "Small" designation has NOTHING to do with the physical size of your speakers! In AVR terms, Large vs. Small is only about bass management, i.e. telling the receiver whether or not you want to cut off bass frequencies below a specific point, and then "cross over" or "hand off" the low frequencies to your subwoofer. As a general rule, if you have a subwoofer, SET EVERYTHING TO "SMALL"! Even if you have big, floorstanding front speakers, you subwoofer will do a better job reproducing the lowest frequencies. 

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I don't beleive in "General Rules" and I'm well aware of what it does when setting the size of your speakers.

I have tried it with my speakers set to small (the "correct" setting) and I have tried them set to large. I like them set to large so that's where I keep them. Don't much care what the "General Rule" is. What I care about is how awesome my Klipchorns and subwoofers sound when I'm breakin' those rules! It's my house and my rules.

Hey everyone, Have a Happy Easter!

Stay classy.

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This would be used in a 2 channel system for general listening. this is the corner I'd be using

 

My Khorns, in my room, are great at 40 Hz, pretty good at 35 Hz, O.K. at 30 Hz.  At all of the frequencies I've mentioned they are much cleaner and less distorted than my Klipsch RSW15 subwoofer, which has a 15" driver and a 15" passive radiator.  With much attenuation, my Khorns will respond down to about 24 Hz, with just  tad of distortion.  As I said on another thread, these results are substantially similar to those found by High Fidelity Magazine in about 1963 or 1964.

 

For MUSIC, there is little below 35 Hz, except for pipe organ, and a few other instruments.  The lowest key on the piano is 27.5 Hz, but it is almost never scored for.  So, I think your lonely single Khorn would be fine as a sub for 2 channel music listening.  You might find it is less muddy sounding than your other speakers.  If you cross over to the Khorns at 80 Hz you should get more than a nice octave of rich, clean bass, and relieve your other speakers of that burden, increasing headroom.  You might even try to cross over as high as 100 or 150 Hz, depending on how good your other speakers are in that range.  Horn loaded bass produces less frequency modulation distortion than the normal wide excursion speaker, which is why there is a trend toward horn loaded subwoofers.  Did you tell us what your other speakers are?

 

For Blu-Ray movies, forget it.  You need a real subwoofer for the LFE effects, which often go as low as 20 Hz, and, in a few insane cases, go down to 5 Hz.  The LFE effects come out of the AVR or pre/pro's subwoofer jack only, where they have been mixed with music and other sound below the bass management crossover (usually 80 Hz).   The filmmakers expect the low pass filter (not really a crossover) for LFE to be set to 120 Hz, and, of course, the LFE will extend down to the aforementioned 5 to 20 Hz. 

 

The Khorns are probably more efficient than your other speakers.  It's O.K. to leave them at 3 to 6 dB higher SPL than your other speakers.  Live a little.

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