gadgtfreek Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) As for reference level and whatnot, I hurt my ears the other day listening to -10 db. I'm done with that crap. Yeah my ears are notoriously sensitive due to a rifle injury but it is mostly my left ear. I also hurt my right one the other day though. I finished the custom center then ran audessey and demo'ed the exciting scenes in Transformers at -10 db. I haven't been able to hear all week, probably did permanent damage. I just don't know if there is something weird going on with that center, or if Audessey was off on the volume calculation, or maybe the receiver was introducing some distortion which is known to hurt ears more than without, or what the deal is. I did move my subs out a little which made some frequencies come alive but typically bass does not bother me, it is the highs. Anyway, I'm done, I don't care for anything that loud at this point, its not worth it. All I can say is you guys need to be careful playing with that kind of volume. Reference level is not natural and it should not take that kind of power to let you enjoy a movie. Id like to note, when I talk about my system hitting 110+ dB's, it's not quite so cut and dry. With my new setup, crossing fronts at 60 and not 80, I've done a lot of testing and adjusting from how I was previously doing it. Im using a good SPL meter, and when I monitor the higher frequencies, I see around 100-102dB in loud scenes. If I swap over to monitor more low frequency stuff, that is when I hit 110-112db, and those are just quick bass hits from the subs. Previously I ran the subs much more hot, but I've done some testing and I like +5db over what XT32 sets it at. This is close to 75db as well with the test tone and reference volume, with my SPL meter set to be more accurate with low freq stuff. I also think running the fronts at 60hz now will help the sub out with headroom instead of all that front channel 60-80hz stuff going to the subs. After reading some good input from a Dolby guy and a sub designer, I have started crossing the LFE channel at 80hz, not 120. This of course is not a brick wall, but a rolloff, and their theory is that subs running all the way to 120hz are getting distracted from their main job, and the 120hz LFE channel was not the norm. Kinda back to the THX theory of cross everything at 80hz, but I think if your mains can do it and you have the power, crossing them at 60z gives more impact across the front. My Hsu subs offer many different configs. I am using Maximum Headroom mode. This is in the middle between Max Ouput (highest db's from 25-80, but not as good under 20) and Max Extension (best mode under 25, but lacks a few db from Max Output in 25-80). So, I get a little more output from 25-80 than max extension, but it also digs deeper than max output below 25. This mode is also designated for large rooms and high playback, which is me (5300cuft). The Q, or dampening setting I use is 0.5, which is for medium to large rooms. I just watched some material I am used too (Transformers city battle, truck chase and gunboat scene in Act of Valor, and last battle with drones in Iron Man 2), and I think I have it right where I want it. Once I swap the center out, I will run XT32 again, set my speaker trims to each other (including the sub), adjust master volume, and continue with the subs +5db hot once all other adjustments are made. I'll also keep LFE xover at 80hz, the 7ii's at 60hz, and the 64ii at 80hz. Edited May 1, 2015 by gadgtfreek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Long runs, have a microchip that boosts the signal Yea and the 'chip' gets powered at the source end I think. Therefore it needs to be installed only in one direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I keep a set of earplugs with my audio gear and were them for demo's. Hearing damage is serious business which is why I added shakers and have tuned down things to a flat FR. Bass can also cause hearing damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) LOL. There is no way after dropping over $11k on AV gear, that I am not gonna listen to movies with authority. I'd also like to point out we might watch one movie a week, so there is a 1 hr 45 minute window over 7 days where I crank my stuff. I rarely even play music. It's not like its 4 hours a day every day. Plus, 85db is city traffic, and where the movie normally runs (85-90). Sure, action scenes and certain points hit the 100db mark but it isnt sustained. You arent sitting here listening to 110db's for 2 hours straight. My last hearing test was fine too I usually let my ears tell me whats too much, they know best if you pay attention. For example I am watching Smokey and the Bandit blu right now. I have it back about -4db from reference, its just a loud movie and anything more is just too much. Edited May 1, 2015 by gadgtfreek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Ill also note, even though Audyssey sets speakers to 75db each time, I am finding I cannot be as liberal with the volume control. Wonder if that will diminish even further with the 64ii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) It's not like its 4 hours a day every day. I watched highlights of two movies, that's it. Basically on transformers 4 I watched the intro, where Optimus came out of the barn, where Nemesis was unleashed, and the closing dinosaur scene. Watched half of two songs on Metallica's movie. That's it. One day. Be careful. Plus, 85db is city traffic, and where the movie normally runs (85-90). 85 db is louder than a freight train going by at 30 feet at 40 mph, and its about what a lawnmower is. My last hearing test was fine too How old are you? Part of the problem is that as we age, we don't bounce back as easily. For example the hairs inside your ears get flattened with loud noises but don't recover like they used to. I usually let my ears tell me whats too much, they know best if you pay attention. The problem with that is that some frequencies are more painful than others. A 140 db jet engine will split your head open while 140 db's worth of bass in a car might seem like fun. They're equally as damaging. Edited May 1, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintoracer Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 gagdtfreek, be careful with the volume. Driving dirt track cars for 10+ years, plus numerous rock concerts without adequate hearing protection has taken its toll on me. I have Tinnitus that will drive anyone bonkers. It's not so bad during the day. But, at night when I'm trying to go to sleep, it's hell. It sneaks up on you when you least expect it. So, be careful. BTW,I love the system you have put together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) I'm 38 years young (or old, depending on the day ) I have a feeling I wont be as loud with these 7ii's, they are all up in your face. It's odd how speakers, both set to 75db with a meter, seem different in volume, or have a different affect. I think it is the larger horns. Edited May 1, 2015 by gadgtfreek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 Looks like my AV calibrator Chad will be in town early June. I am going to have him put me on the list for a visit. I will have the 64II by then and he can come in and fully test the reaction of the speakers in this room, and help me with proper xover settings and such. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Cross psot from the 2 channel forum, where I was questioned about my liking pure 2 channel for music vs involving the subs and center. In past models I used PLII music, but they changed modes this year: I think I figured out part of the issue. In the new models they do not have PLII Music anymore, which is what I would have used, it is Dolby Surround and many owners of the new preamp/amps are not happy with the SQ. The option is to buy the $200 Auro 3D upgrade and use Auro 2D for music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Found the next upgrade. As much as I love my dual 15's, they eat up space on both sides of the room. Problem is, hard to find a single sub that can power over duals. I found one at Power Sound Audio that runs dual 15's with a small footprint, with tremendous output as tested by data-bass.com. Well, it is discontinued. I talked to one of the owners of PSA today, and the replacement model is a month or two away. Model number is the V3600, will have dual 18" drivers and 1700 watts. Attached is a photo of one the "skunkworks" models. Final model will be smaller, and hopefully it will be more vertical than wide like their dual 15" model was. Price will be about $1900. I see this in my future in the July/Aug time frame... yeah yeah, so I like bass too. Edited May 8, 2015 by gadgtfreek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxr dad Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'm not an expert when it comes to subs so I cant say what it will do but it looks good! You may want to, if you havent already, post this in the subwoofer forum if you want some feedback. But then again, maybe you know what you want and aint looking for no feedback. LOL. I wouldnt do without a sub if I have any say in the matter. I look at subs kinda like amps. The more headroom the better. And you dont have to turn it to 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 RC64II is in the trunk, ready to go home! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted May 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 19, 2015 No photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Ill post one when I get home. I work at a dirty arse dock lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxr dad Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I find getting speakers in the trunk is a lot easier than getting the wife in the trunk. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) .The problem with that is that some frequencies are more painful than others. A 140 db jet engine will split your head open while 140 db's worth of bass in a car might seem like fun. They're equally as damaging. I've read to the contrary. Let me see if I can find the article. Edited May 19, 2015 by CECAA850 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Do I understand correctly that the way the wires are laid out in a XLR, they are immune are almost immune to interference from other sources? Fairly immune. When I once took a couple of recording classes at SFSU both the professor and the engineers at the pro studios we visited sugested that for very long runs the cables be layed out crossing one another at right angles to minimize any hum that could be picked up. For all I know, this could be an "old recordist's tale," but several pros advocated it. I have used 20 to 30 foot runs with XLRs, with no hum or noise problems. The studios often used Beldens that looked like yours, but much longer. Belden is to cables as Kleenex is to facial tissue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) gagdtfreek, be careful with the volume. Driving dirt track cars for 10+ years, plus numerous rock concerts without adequate hearing protection has taken its toll on me. Driving dirt track cars and attending rock concerts without hearing protection both involve much more sustained high SPL than gagdtfreek is likely to get watching movies. A 110 dB boom here and there shouldn't be a problem, unless the listener has high sensitivity or a hearing system injury. With a few peaks at 110 dB, movie music that would be considered "loud" would be more like 80 to 90 dB, on the average, during those loud passages, with dialog and the background score much lower, because they aren't "loud." PWK thought that a good sound system should be able to deliver 115 dB on very brief peaks, which is just exactly what the (much later) full scale (peak) level for the subwoofer is in both the THX and Audyssey systems. THX published a chart on how many dB below true Reference Level would be the subjective equivalent of Reference in progressively smaller rooms (unless the rooms are highly treated). In a room the size of mine, about 4,500 cu. ft., the subjective approximation of Reference would be about 6 dB below Reference. I generally run movies at 5 dB below Audyssey calibrated Reference, and I have only had to turn down a few movies, including The Grey, Looper, Star Trek - Into Darkness, Pacific Rim, and the only Transformers movie we ever ran. At 5 dB below reference, many movies are beautiful sounding throughout, including Amadeus, Shakespeare in Love, and Fantasia 2000. Edited May 19, 2015 by garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgtfreek Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Yeah, I have done some checking with my meter, even when you have the volume high, it rarely hits those worry points, and of course some action scenes will have some peaks. On the flip side, I saw blue man in vegas last week and they hit around 105db during some of their musical stuff upgrade=done 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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