Feezelbum Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Greetings all, Since I received my new RF7ii's about a month ago, I have been researching options for upgrading my 2ch system, and I recently ran across a post in another forum that has left me a little concerned, and I was hoping for some guidance from you all. First, a little about how I enjoy my music (I've also added my set up to sig for reference, but the AVR is 85 wpc)... I usually stream music from my wireless external drive to a laptop connected to my AVR. When in the "listening room", I typically have the volume at about 9-o'clock. I have a dB volume app on my iPhone, which I know is not truly accurate, but it reads about 50-60dB. This is my typical weekday listening level. Now, on weekends, I really open it up (I make every effort to live up to the Klipsch moniker!) I am typically doing something in the house or outside, and I like to hear my music whilst doing my "honey-do's". I usually have the volume up to around 11-12 o'clock position. I just got the app so I haven't recorded the level on weekends yet, but it is definitely at an uncomfortable level if sitting in the room. The problem I have been experiencing is an occasional cut-out of the music when playing at high levels. I don't know if it is actually "clipping" that many of you refer to or not. Regardless, I have been attributing it to the wireless router, thinking is was just caching data or the laptop was temporarily re-establishing connection with the drive. That's what I thought, anyway, until I ran across the below post: "A good rule of thumb is to have an amp with a little more watts than the speaker. Too little wattage run wide open will burn up voice coils much quicker than too much wattage at a reasonable level. The low wattage amp clips when driven too hard, and it causes the voice coil in the speaker to get really really hot. (think lightbulb filament)" Is it possible that listening at high levels with my current receiver could be damaging my speakers, due to too little wattage? Or, do I only need to worry about dealing with the local authorities when the neighbors complain, and crank that thing to my ears content? Thanks in advance for any assistance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) It seems to me that your AVR is temporarily going into protection mode. If we are talking the same AVR, it is spec'd at 60w/ch at 8ohms. There may not be enough oooomph to drive your 7II's at such high volumes. Bill Edited April 9, 2015 by willland 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Ditto to what youthman said. Many of us use power amps or flagship avr's with more power. I would suspect that impedance dips may be causing the problem. Let's see what others have to say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Ditto to what youthman said. Many of us use power amps or flagship avr's with more power. I would suspect that impedance dips may be causing the problem. Let's see what others have to say.That was willand but, yes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Well, they say that they are brothers, lol. Apologies to Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Well, they say that they are brothers, lol. Apologies to Bill. No apologies needed. I consider it a complement. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) Lol, it is all good. Have you tried a cd to change sources or other to confirm avr dropping out cause of low watts per channel? Thanks Edited April 10, 2015 by billybob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 If it only does it when playing loud, the amps are resetting or there is a loose connection that jiggles around when loud. Considering this is a fairly low powered receiver and being pushed hard with a set of speakers that don't have the sweetest of impedance curves, I'd go with the amps shutting down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feezelbum Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 Thanks for the replies... I intend on acquiring a new amplifier soon, I was just concerned if I could be damaging the speakers with the current receiver. Lol, it is all good.Have you tried a cd to change sources or other to confirm avr dropping out cause of low watts per channel?Thanks Unfortunately, since I hooked up the new speakers, I am unable to use my CD player... The vibrations cause the unit to skip even at low-moderate levels. I assume it because they are delivering a much lower frequency than my previous speakers. I've been looking real close at the NAD C 375BEE DAC, with the PP 375 Phono Preamplifier MDC Module for my next purchase, but I tell ya, some of the equipment I've seen down in the garage sale has me wondering if I would be better served helping some of you folks offload your unused gear. There is some nice equipment down there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I've been looking real close at the NAD C 375BEE DAC, with the PP 375 Phono Preamplifier MDC Module for my next purchase, Excellent choice. No power issues there. but I tell ya, some of the equipment I've seen down in the garage sale has me wondering if I would be better served helping some of you folks offload your unused gear. There is some nice equipment down there! I am sure that would be very pleasing to the lucky sellers. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Get more quality power. The items you talk about are for icing on the cake, but where is the cake (amp/power)? Yes you can damage the speakers with your receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I concur; your AVR is running out of gas. To confirm this; you could try different source material; and therefore eliminate the router. (CD or 3.5mm to rca plug). Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Yes, in any case, more power at the listening levels you sometime do. No point in taking a chance with those nice speakers. We can help guide you with that. Thanks for the replies... I intend on acquiring a new amplifier soon, I was just concerned if I could be damaging the speakers with the current receiver. Lol, it is all good. Have you tried a cd to change sources or other to confirm avr dropping out cause of low watts per channel? Thanks Unfortunately, since I hooked up the new speakers, I am unable to use my CD player... The vibrations cause the unit to skip even at low-moderate levels. I assume it because they are delivering a much lower frequency than my previous speakers. I've been looking real close at the NAD C 375BEE DAC, with the PP 375 Phono Preamplifier MDC Module for my next purchase, but I tell ya, some of the equipment I've seen down in the garage sale has me wondering if I would be better served helping some of you folks offload your unused gear. There is some nice equipment down there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Have you checked to see if your AVR is abnormally hot when it shuts off? If so, I would certainly keep the volume low until you get a better quality amp. I have read that sometimes inaudible distortion when amps are run to clipping can damage tweeters. I would think that NAD would be a great choice. The new Yamaha integrated amps are getting great reviews. I bought a new Yammy' A-S501 for my modest two channel living room system and I love it! The A-S801 has a great built in ESS SABRE DAC and you can get it in silver finish for that retro look. Good luck with your search! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feezelbum Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 If we are talking the same AVR, it is spec'd at 60w/ch at 8ohms. There may not be enough oooomph to drive your 7II's at such high volumes. Bill Thanks Bill... You are correct, I checked the manual, and indeed it is running at 60wpc in stereo. Have you checked to see if your AVR is abnormally hot when it shuts off? If so, I would certainly keep the volume low until you get a better quality amp. I have read that sometimes inaudible distortion when amps are run to clipping can damage tweeters. I would think that NAD would be a great choice. The new Yamaha integrated amps are getting great reviews. I bought a new Yammy' A-S501 for my modest two channel living room system and I love it! The A-S801 has a great built in ESS SABRE DAC and you can get it in silver finish for that retro look. Good luck with your search! The unit seems to be running warm after just a few minutes regardless of volume. Not excessively hot where it is uncomfortable to the touch, but it is very hot. Since you mentioned Yamaha, I went and checked out there offerings. My first system was a Yamaha (still have the equalizer) and from what I remember (it was a LONG time ago) I really enjoyed the system. The A-S2100 caught my eye (must be those level meters). It is somewhat in my wheelhouse as far as budget, with the addition of the T-S500 tuner. I can live with the onboard phono and work a DAC separate in later when funding permits. I have been tossing around my options, and now I think I am really leaning towards the S2100. My only concern is that is only rated for 90wpc. The lack of wattage for my current usage is what began my search to begin with, and I certainly don't want to drop 3k on an amp that will leave me no better off than where I started. I looked at the S801 (100wpc) and the S1000 (115wpc), but I really like the S2100 specs (did I mention those those level meters? ). Do you all think that the S2100 will adequately drive my 7ii's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I have been tossing around my options, and now I think I am really leaning towards the S2100. My only concern is that is only rated for 90wpc. Believe me, a mere 90w/ch with this 50lbs beast is no concern at all. My A-S1000 is also rated at 90w/ch@8ohms(140w/ch@4ohms) and tested at 99w/ch@8ohms(164w/ch@4ohms). I can assure you it would have no issue driving many a speaker on the market to painful volume levels. (must be those level meters) Oh the meters. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted April 25, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) All good questions and answers but I wanted to say something NOT about power. I used a Yamaha AVR for 2 Ch, (not RF7's) just as a preamp by using the pre-outs for a good while and thought everything was fine. I got a great deal on DAC so I thought I would try it, I connected a BR player into the DAC instead of the AVR, the difference was amazing, totally different, much better. Using only the pre-amp part of the AVR I was thinking it will be fine, I was very WRONG about that, it really changed the sound, and this is not even counting the weak amps many AVR's have. (overrated power spec's) The speakers used have active crossovers and then separate power amps, so all I changed was the signal going in. So that's the only change I was hearing and it was a big change. What I am trying to say is if at all possible do not use a AVR for 2 CH, use something else, I would bet you will be very surprised, see if you can even borrow something just to try. I am still amazed at the difference, like a completely different setup. Just something to think about while looking Edited April 25, 2015 by dtel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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