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Cornwall III or Belle


hcnelly

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Well, if I'm able to just screw the 601 right in, I would definitely try it....If it involves making a bigger hole or tweaking the crossovers, that would be over my head :) I also wonder if that would affect the timbre match between my heresy iiis if I switched to the 601s in my cornwalls

 

 

-the phenolic diaphragms are the second option -as Morey mentionned -

 

he k601 is the only horn that fits on the K701 titanium drivers -4 screws in the back - just like the k701 -

 

- you would have to get the proper measurements to compare - but the mod is very simple and cheap as well as these are 30$ - 50$ horns only - 

 

-dont touch the crossover - it is fine - as the only difference here is 100htz - you will however hear a more pleasant midrange  sound , and not as harsh as the k701 as the k701 was meant for a smaller speaker - rather than the 1 foot wider Cornwall cab -

Edited by Randyh
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You can see in the second picture with the 701 sitting on top of the 601 that its actually smaller in width as well.

yea - you are 100% right - but the modification is a very easy one to do - thanks for the info - I have the k400-the k600-the k701 - but I am missing the k601 -

 

the k69 from the forte 2 and the chorus 2 is great but in the CW3 would definitely not fit - by the way - what is the htz rating of the k69 horn lense or does that not matter as it is a tractrix horn -

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I'm 100% positive that you'd have to change the cut out for the mid horn. The 701 has a curve on the bottom that fits over a 12" woofer.

I agree with you 100% as well - thanks for the pictures - that k601 is bigger but it would fit with the modification of the cut out of the mid horn -  the k601  is a very nice horn in comparison with the k701 - what a difference it must do in the sound of a CW3 -

Edited by Randyh
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Well, if I'm able to just screw the 601 right in, I would definitely try it....If it involves making a bigger hole or tweaking the crossovers, that would be over my head :) I also wonder if that would affect the timbre match between my heresy iiis if I switched to the 601s in my cornwalls

yeah - after seeing the right pictures - a bigger hole is needed -but that is very easy to do with a router -

 

you remove the k701 - then place the k601 with front face on the motorboard - line up with the tweeter - take a color pencil and trace the outline -

 

-with a router - cut out the midrange opening , the openings have to be recessed as well so the horn is flush with the motorboard -1/2 hour per cabinet - and the look would be seamless -

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Hey moray,I love the bass of my Cornwalls and certainly don't want to lose that...how would changing to phenolic diaphragms change the sound for the better? Are they higher quality than the titanium or just different sounding?

Not sure that I understand your concern here a CW2 and a CW3 have the same bass section same driver there will be not real difference in bass other than that the CW3 mid cannot be played as low as the larger K601 mid horn of the CW2 (the lower crossover is a big bonus). The ti diaphragms have break up modes which are objectionable to some and the phenolic do not share the same sonic profile so some people would say the phenolic sound smoother to them You already know what the phenolic sound like the diaphragms in your Heresy are phenolic and you said that you loved them. you cannot exchange horns they are different sizes the K601 is physically larger than a K701 is. Best regards Moray James.

PS: I don't want others to take offense here but doing a hack job on a pair of near to new CW3 is not a plan and will destroy the resale value totally. The plan here should be to establish if what the op is really after is phenolic diaphragms or not and if he is then a pair of good condition CW2 would be the logical way to go and simply sell the CW3. He gets diaphragms that he likes the sound of and a better larger lower crossover point mid horn while maintaining the bass he loves. I cannot over state the fact that some people really hate the sound of ti diaphragms, they are particularly sensitive to the frequency range in which the titanium diaphragm break up. I happen to be fine with then in fact I prefer them to phenolic but this is really a situation of different strokes for different folks.

Edited by moray james
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Belles

Not only one the most attractive Heritage models but horn loaded top to bottom. Yep you will lose some lower bass but trade it for a much quicker bass, the entire sound presentation from the Belle is well, better IMO. I've owned both at the same time and the CW always sounded slow, sloppy and reserved in comparison. I actually sent my Crites networks back to Bob thinking something was wrong with the CW after listening to Belles for several months. Networks were just fine it's just the Belle has the quickness, mid range clarity and better projection the CW can't match. Belles and LS have plenty of Good bass with the right amp driving them.

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Belles

Not only one the most attractive Heritage models but horn loaded top to bottom. Yep you will lose some lower bass but trade it for a much quicker bass, the entire sound presentation from the Belle is well, better IMO. I've owned both at the same time and the CW always sounded slow, sloppy and reserved in comparison. I actually sent my Crites networks back to Bob thinking something was wrong with the CW after listening to Belles for several months. Networks were just fine it's just the Belle has the quickness, mid range clarity and better projection the CW can't match. Belles and LS have plenty of Good bass with the right amp driving them.

In general I agree with you Richie but in this case the OP has all ready stated he does not want to loose the bass of the CW he has. The added efficiency of the Belle is always a very addictive thing. To the op the CW K601 horn is simply a larger mouth version of the K701 you have heard in Heresy and that you now have in your current CW3 so there is no problem they are perfect timbre matches, the CW2 matches perfectly with a Heresy or a CW3 or anything with a K700/701 or a K600/K601 (metal and resin versions of the same horn). I think you have all that you need now but to make a decision one way or the other. Best regards Moray James.

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the OP has 4 choices -and I would rate them in this order ;

 

1) Buy Belles or Scalas in order to have a speaker that delivers on the midrange - Scalas are better than Belles -as the mid horn is 400htz versus 450htz for the Belle -

 

2) change diaphragms on the CW3 to phenolic  - I doubt that will really make a difference if not be a downgrade  -

3) replace the horn with a K601  brand new horn as the CW3 is in a new condition   - the work should  be done properly by a competent wood worker to avoid having the unit look like a hack job -bear in mind that the changes are permanent -

4) avoid touching or modifying the CW3 -

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Hey moray,I love the bass of my Cornwalls and certainly don't want to lose that...how would changing to phenolic diaphragms change the sound for the better? Are they higher quality than the titanium or just different sounding?

Not sure that I understand your concern here a CW2 and a CW3 have the same bass section same driver there will be not real difference in bass other than that the CW3 mid cannot be played as low as the larger K601 mid horn of the CW2 (the lower crossover is a big bonus). The ti diaphragms have break up modes which are objectionable to some and the phenolic do not share the same sonic profile so some people would say the phenolic sound smoother to them You already know what the phenolic sound like the diaphragms in your Heresy are phenolic and you said that you loved them. you cannot exchange horns they are different sizes the K601 is physically larger than a K701 is. Best regards Moray James.

PS: I don't want others to take offense here but doing a hack job on a pair of near to new CW3 is not a plan and will destroy the resale value totally. The plan here should be to establish if what the op is really after is phenolic diaphragms or not and if he is then a pair of good condition CW2 would be the logical way to go and simply sell the CW3. He gets diaphragms that he likes the sound of and a better larger lower crossover point mid horn while maintaining the bass he loves. I cannot over state the fact that some people really hate the sound of ti diaphragms, they are particularly sensitive to the frequency range in which the titanium diaphragm break up. I happen to be fine with then in fact I prefer them to phenolic but this is really a situation of different strokes for different folks.

 

I agree with Moray -   any modification should not be a hack job - if not done properly - dont do it unless you have the right skills

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I really do not think that changing the diaphragms on the CW3 is the best option even though I made the suggestion the speakers will due to the mass roll of of the phenolic diaphragms make for a gap in response between the mid and tweeter of the CW3 they have been optimized for Ti diaphragms. Second I do not agree with your assessment that there is little difference between the sound of the titanium diaphragms and the phenolic ones to me it is night and day different. I think that your suggested step 3 should be skipped and the op stick with your 4th suggestion. Far better to use the value in those speaker after selling them to buy a good clean set of CW2 and pocket the savings. No changes have to be made by the op just enjoy the sound he is after. Best regards Moray James.

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I prefer the titanium diaphragms in the CW3 - but the mid horn is pretty harsh after some high power listening - like the OP - I think a larger horn would be better - hopefefully , there will be someone out there who will design a larger horn for the CW 3 and be aesthetic - for the purpose of the discussion , a k601 is a better mid horn than a k701

Edited by Randyh
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ok I'm off work, so I can tell you more about what I'm considering....sorry, it's long

Moray, I don't have heresy I speakers, but I have a pair of forte 1s, 3 heresy iii speakers, and a pair of Cornwall iiis....I know the fortes have phenolic diaphragms and they are my favorite speakers that I use upstairs with a Scott 299C for one of stereo setups

Downstairs I have my main home theater/stereo setup with the heresy iiis and Cornwall iiis....I switch between my home theater avr marantz receiver for movies and my two different stereo receivers for music. A Scott 340A and marantz 2275

Honestly Nathan, I wouldn't have a problem modifying my Cornwall iiis and putting in the 601 horns if it would open up the midrange and reveal more detail. I would never sell them if it did that, but I don't trust myself to do it and I don't know anyone or business that could do it where I live that I trust...Rapid City, SD...

Honestly my Cornwall iiis sound just like my heresy iiis, but with more bass. It doesn't have that big presentation I wonder about. If the phenolic drivers could reveal more detail in the midrange, like my fortes, I would certainly replace my titanium ones....

The belles are very appealing to me...I wonder about that midrange and high efficiency. I own a Hsu Research VTF 15H subwoofer that's very very nice. If I got the belles, would it come close to matching my Cornwall iiis for bass with my Hsu sub? The only thing keeping me from getting them, is that the timbre probably wouldn't match with my heresy iiis which I use for my center and surrounds when I watch movies. My downstairs is my main entertainment hangout, and it bugs me that I like my fortes better than my Cornwall iiis for music and movies....

I would sell my Cornwall iiis, but they're B Stock (although they look exactly like my A Stock Heresy iiis as far as the walnut veneer) but I think it would be hard to find a buyer where I live. Maybe I should get all fortes for my home theater lol, but I'd really like to hear a full sized midrange horn to find out what I might be missing

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you can test both the k601 and the phenolic yourself .

 

1) -remove the driver from the forte and swap it in the CW 3 -  the mid drivers on the forte and CW3 are the same -less the titanium diaphragm

2) find a k601 - take the middriver from the forte  to test the phenolic and k601 on the CW3 

 

3) finally , hook a  K601  with the CW3 titanium mid driver  -  

 

-after that is done - tell us your preferences -

Edited by Randyh
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The larger mid hor in the CW2 is what is going to make more difference along with of course the lower crossover point that affords. The Chorus 2 has an even nicer mid horn than the CW2 does. A Cornscala might be just what you are looking for. If you have the room look to the Belle or the LaScala but if you want a more domestic loudspeaker with the best and largest wide band horn Klipsch has built to date look no farther than the CF3 or the CF4 both of the Epic series. Hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James.

Belle would not be a gamble they are beautiful and sound great.

there is zero quality difference between a and b stock Klipsch only difference is the veneer matching.

Edited by moray james
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I don't know why, but I'm against getting Cornwall iis and that seems like the best option as far as the home theater aspect and the timbre matching....how would belles sound paired with my hsu vtf 15h against my Cornwall iiis and the sub for music? Would my home theater sound horrible with the belles as my mains and heresy iiis for the rest? I know they probably wouldn't match well aesthetically, but I'm wondering about the whole timbre thing and sound

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I don't know why, but I'm against getting Cornwall iis and that seems like the best option as far as the home theater aspect and the timbre matching....how would belles sound paired with my hsu vtf 15h against my Cornwall iiis and the sub for music? Would my home theater sound horrible with the belles as my mains and heresy iiis for the rest? I know they probably wouldn't match well aesthetically, but I'm wondering about the whole timbre thing and sound

the sound would be very flat -

Edited by Randyh
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