Paducah Home Theater Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm thinking about putting four 18's up front in a row and finishing it out like a high end coffee table. I put a deposit down on a big slab of "premium plus" absolute black granite yesterday that will go on top. Plan to have double thick 3/4" baltic birch on all panels. Probably will have to make two cabinets to keep the weight down, otherwise it will weigh several hundred pounds. goals: 1. very little compromises without spending WAY too much 2. effortless subsonic bass that doesn't bottom out... 3. without compromising super tight super fast chest beating kick drums 4. as close to zero box resonances or vibrations as possible. no coloration. 5. want to hang with or surpass a JTR Noesis S2 while spending less. End result will look nearly identical and probably constructed similarly. 6. needs to visually look good with a professional finish and not like a typical man cave offering 7. not too much power consumption, could have a dedicated 20 amp circuit but don't really want to go beyond that although I could. The question is in the details. Which subs and which amp? I already have two ultimax's, trying to decide what to do with those, could put them behind me and cross them over low, or take out the drivers and use them on this build, or sell them and start over. However if I go with them and keep my inuke amp I'll have to get another iNuke or two because you can't run two subs per channel due to no choice on the imedance and the iNuke 6000 being in forced dual bridge mode. Anyway, what would you go with? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Ultimate? I'd put 6kW on 4 of THESE. You can always spend more (or less for that matter) but the Q's are in a league of their own as far as SQ goes. My opinion only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 not too much power consumption You'll need to build horns then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) not too much power consumption You'll need to build horns then. I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit I can max out. I can tap into two more 20 amp circuits that is currently wired as a 220V welder outlet if need be but I'm lazy. I'd like a horn but the wife really wants the subs up front and I'm not totally sure that concert blu rays can sound right any way else. Edited April 21, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Ultimate? I'd put 6kW on 4 of THESE. You can always spend more (or less for that matter) but the Q's are in a league of their own as far as SQ goes. My opinion only. English please. What will these get me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 just get 4 of the si HST-18's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) goals: 1. very little compromises without spending WAY too much 2. effortless subsonic bass that doesn't bottom out... 3. without compromising super tight super fast chest beating kick drums 4. as close to zero box resonances or vibrations as possible. no coloration. 5. want to hang with or surpass a JTR Noesis S2 while spending less. End result will look nearly identical and probably constructed similarly. 6. needs to visually look good with a professional finish and not like a typical man cave offering 7. not too much power consumption, could have a dedicated 20 amp circuit but don't really want to go beyond that although I could. You have already brought a granite top so, this will get expensive. The cabinet dose not need to be as thick. There is a point of enough thickness and bracing and anything extra adds little benefit. These subs are going to be heavy and hard to move unless you have lots of help. People like to place the subs all up front but, you will reinforce the same peaks and dips if SQ is a major concern. Tight bass is a matter of setup, not related to a particular driver for the most part. If these are direct radiator subs, there is no way around adequate power. I guess the real question is what is your goal? Do you want under 15 Hz ULF or powerful 15 Hz and above, high spl in th 20-70 Hz area.? ULF requires more power and more excursion. Room size should help the decision. Vented subs will have around 10 db more output than their sealed counter part subs. For me, I am going for 15 Hz and up due to the size of the room. I just finished 2 sealed boxe. Why not vented boxes, size constrainst. Edited April 21, 2015 by derrickdj1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 For me, I am going for 15 Hz and up due to the size of the room. he ought to do the same. bottoming out those ultimax subs happens way to easy in his room so I'm guessing he is a bad listening position. only thing to help would be multiples around the room or to just suck it up and give up on the single digit stuff. it eats up amp power like crazy. my buddy here that has the eight ultimax subs cannot play olympus has fallen monument falling scene at reference with subs 6 hot. he has twice the subs and twice the power as me and technically the ultimate should have a little more oomph than the Si 18's. however i play that scene no problem at even a couple db above reference. with subs 6 hot. goes to show how much the room has to do with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Small Size Power Efficiency Low Cost To my knowledge you can only have two of these three qualities at any one time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Ultimate? I'd put 6kW on 4 of THESE. You can always spend more (or less for that matter) but the Q's are in a league of their own as far as SQ goes. My opinion only. English please. What will these get me? The Ficar will handle 2 and a half times more power that the SI. It also has more x-max. In real world terms you'll be able to go cleaner, louder and lower with these. The Q is noted for accuracy and cleanness as well. The SI is a better bang for you buck but you said ultimate, not inexpensive. The Q is just a better driver. Edited April 21, 2015 by CECAA850 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Small Size Power Efficiency Low Cost To my knowledge you can only have two of these three qualities at any one time. Low cost isn't one of the big 3 as far as Hoffman goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) You have already brought a granite top so, this will get expensive. I got a deal on a remnant. Still expensive but probably not what you're thinking. Basically $30 a square foot. My room is uglier than I would like right now and I can't hide anything so I'm just going to try to make it look nicer. The cabinet dose not need to be as thick. There is a point of enough thickness and bracing and anything extra adds little benefit. I already have boxes where everything but the baffle is a single layer of 13 ply baltic birch braced with hardwood and I can still feel vibrations and it scoots around a center if I put them on top. Don't know how else to kill them. Maybe I'm being anal rentitve and they just don't matter but it annoys me. The baffle is rock solid though. I guess the real question is what is your goal? Do you want under 15 Hz ULF or powerful 15 Hz and above, high spl in th 20-70 Hz area.? Room size should help the decision. Vented subs will have around 10 db more output than their sealed counter part subs. For me, I am going for 15 Hz and up due to the size of the room. I just finished 2 sealed boxe. I want super defined, fast, and pleasant bass that blends well with the mains in the 50-80 hz range, but still want it flat at least down to 18 hz, maybe even a little exaggerated down that low. I'm not as concerned about 10 hz, you can't even hear that, it is primarily for bragging rights as far as I'm concerned. Basically I want the best of both worlds, needs to sound like a high sensitivity and very defined pro audio sub on heavy metal music, but don't want to compromise output at 18 hz. I'm starting to think that massive and heavy ultra long xmax subs aren't necessarily what is going to get me that sound up high. Why not vented boxes, size constrainst. I could be talked into it but if no coloration and super tight kick drums are my goal then I don't see how I could guarantee this to be the outcome on a DIY project. Edited April 21, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Small Size Power Efficiency Low Cost To my knowledge you can only have two of these three qualities at any one time. Ah the old engineering adage - "fast, good, cheap... pick two." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Ficar is made in the good ol USA as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Ficar is made in the good ol USA as well. That's actually another goal of mine. All these chinese speakers are starting to annoy me. I had to send an ultimax back because the voice coil was rubbing right out of the box, seemingly zero quality control or pride of work. If they had tested at all they would have caught that. Edited April 21, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 The Ficar will handle 2 and a half times more power that the SI. It also has more x-max. In real world terms you'll be able to go cleaner, louder and lower with these. The Q is noted for accuracy and cleanness as well. The SI is a better bang for you buck but you said ultimate, not inexpensive. The Q is just a better driver. That's cheap as far as I'm concerned, been looking at RE XXX, SI HST-18, TC Sounds... $354 is only $75 more than an ultimax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Why would they put a foam surround on it though? Ugh. That's a hard pill to swallow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) my buddy here that has the eight ultimax subs cannot play olympus has fallen monument falling scene at reference with subs 6 hot. he has twice the subs and twice the power as me and technically the ultimate should have a little more oomph than the Si 18's. however i play that scene no problem at even a couple db above reference. with subs 6 hot. goes to show how much the room has to do with it. The Washington Monument scene I can do reference but, things would shut down if I tried to run 6 db. hot. This is due to a low end boost in the DSP/PEQ because of room size and lack of engough cabin gain that smaller rooms supply. Edited April 21, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Why would they put a foam surround on it though? Ugh. That's a hard pill to swallow. It's not the foam you're thinking of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 The Ficar will handle 2 and a half times more power that the SI. It also has more x-max. In real world terms you'll be able to go cleaner, louder and lower with these. The Q is noted for accuracy and cleanness as well. The SI is a better bang for you buck but you said ultimate, not inexpensive. The Q is just a better driver. Those are nice drivers. I have looked at them in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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