muel Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Some of us never graduated... I was too busy making spitballs... usually using an entire sheet of paper. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEA Audio Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Yes, this is the same AEA, and the same people who designed the 520. My name is Ken Leonard and I was the lead designer. Thanks! Always nice to hear from someone who remembers the 520. And I'm always happy to answer any questions about the old AEA line. There is an interesting story about the 520 preamp and how I came to design it on our site at http://aeaaudio.com/legacy-page/. It was actually very much as you described - a crazy startup challenging the SP3. My son, Lloyd Leonard, who convinced me to recently restart AEA and who now works for the company, originally wrote and posted this thread, sharing the method of cleaning and the restoration process we currently use. Edited May 3, 2015 by AEA Audio 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Yes, this is the same AEA, and the same people who designed the 520. My name is Ken Leonard and I was the lead designer. Thanks! Always nice to hear from someone who remembers the 520. And I'm always happy to answer any questions about the old AEA line. There is an interesting story about the 520 preamp and how I came to design it on our site at http://aeaaudio.com/legacy-page/. It was actually very much as you described - a crazy startup challenging the SP3. My son, Lloyd Leonard, who convinced me to recently restart AEA and who now works for the company, originally wrote and posted this thread, sharing the method of cleaning and the restoration process we currently use. The AEA name resounds with high quality -we still remember the gear -no mistake as to who started it all - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Welcome to the forum Ken. I look forward to more valuable posts. Please take criticism from some of the "experts" with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, some, like Al Klappenberger, were too thin skinned to avoid taking any questioning as personal criticism. As a result, the forum has lost valuable resources. Please don't join those ranks. I've been around long enough to watch students turn on mentors. I remember having to school today's experts on the difference between series and parallel. I remember when some of the experts couldn't spell, oh wait, they still can't. The point is, we can all learn, even from those with whom we disagree, but not if we're rude and closed-minded. Just because someone does things differently, that does not amount to an attack on differing methods. It's healthy to disagree, but respectfully. Tearing others down does not build one up in the eyes of others. Civility is the key. You have avoided taking the bait. Well done. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Yes, this is the same AEA, and the same people who designed the 520. My name is Ken Leonard and I was the lead designer. Thanks! Always nice to hear from someone who remembers the 520. And I'm always happy to answer any questions about the old AEA line. There is an interesting story about the 520 preamp and how I came to design it on our site at http://aeaaudio.com/legacy-page/. It was actually very much as you described - a crazy startup challenging the SP3. My son, Lloyd Leonard, who convinced me to recently restart AEA and who now works for the company, originally wrote and posted this thread, sharing the method of cleaning and the restoration process we currently use. Welcome Ken The 520 construction, features and design look exceptional and especially considering when it was introduced..!!! I want to also mention that Lloyd has shown a perfect example of friendliness and respect for others especially when it wasn't being given to him..!!! miketn Edited May 3, 2015 by mikebse2a3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Someone is going to have to show me where this guy or company was personally attacked? His cleaning methods and rebuild practices were indeed put into question...to me nothing more or nothing less. My straight to the point methods do not portray things in the best light... but this is nothing new and anyone that has been around here for many years knows this to be my personality. The issues I brought up have still not been addresses in any reasonable manor in my opinion. I will admit that I was a bit over the top and I do have a valid excuse for my shortness, I do regret for doing so. I started steroid treatments Friday morning for the current severe respiratory infection left behind by a case of the flue I had early last week which did render me very easily irritable beyond my normal level. Anyone that has been on these medications should easily understand. the doctor actually wanted to admit me in the hospital...so it left me way too much time and energy to waste and boy has it been a waste... I'm stepping out of this thread unless I see some truly valid responses to my direct concerns about submersing many of the passive components that are left in circuit after washing. I do think the result of this cleaning to the chassis are darn nice but in the case of this Fisher totally unnecessary since it could have been hand cleaned with the same results. Beyond that debate I have nothing to say. Edited May 4, 2015 by dtel's wife General characterization/abusive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Someone is going to have to show me where this guy or company was personally attacked? His cleaning methods and rebuild practices were indeed put into question...to me nothing more or nothing less. My straight to the point methods do not portray things in the best light... but this is nothing new and anyone that has been around here for many years knows this to be my personality. I find many of you as wishy/washy, way to politically correct and walking on tippy toes.... The tone of this thread looks different because the moderater cleaned up the thread because of your postings had caused it to be locked. Marty at least has said he should have done differently. Edited May 4, 2015 by dtel's wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Mike I made downloaded copies of both threads and I posted nothing as irate as that moderatior on AK posted to me and decided to leave live...They have been warned.. Edited May 4, 2015 by dtel's wife remarks serve no useful purpose, name calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) I above stated "I do regret for doing so." and of course your vindictive *** decides to gloss right over it...and folks wonder why I'm so irate... I give up.... All I'm doing is trying to show you what you asked for and that is AEA was being attacked and not just methods questioned. Craig it's not just about AEA being disrespected either..! You disrespected several in this thread when they expressed different opinions..! I for one do not appreciate being told to "butt out" just because you didn't like what I posted..!!! Edited May 4, 2015 by dtel's wife repeating the name calling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEA Audio Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 Thanks everyone. This is a great community and we are happy to be here, sharing and learning along with everyone. After experimenting with ultrasonic cleaning, we decided to share our experience with the community because it seems to us to be a method that can solve a lot of restoration problems associated with tarnish and corrosion. We totally understand the controversy over this method of cleaning. We did a lot of head scratching ourselves as we got into it. And no offense taken at all by the obvious concerns raised. We invite questions about these techniques. Being skeptical is not only healthy, its necessary in the case of new ideas. However, one can be skeptical of new ideas without being paralyzed by their preconceptions. If we let our prejudice limit our exploration of new ideas, we never make progress. As for "poof" that it works, we have tried to document our own experience with it, and address the issues around submersion of components. I first learned about these methods years ago in the manufacturing process, and later in restoring vintage tube equipment, including audio and ham radio gear. I personally have many pieces of tube equipment from the 50's and 60's that I restored many years ago by submerging them in hot soapy water in a large sink for up to an hour while they were hand scrubbed. And they are all still "show case'"quality in looks, and function like new with most of the original components still in place. The video we linked to by Bob Sumption is a great resource to learn about restoring old tube gear. Most of the methods he demonstrates translates directly to any tube gear, not just radios. The video linked is only one in a longer series. Bob is an advanced class amateur radio operator and retired electronics engineer, and extremely knowledgeable on these subjects, having actually designed tube gear back in the day. He is very highly respected in the amateur ham radio community. There is no real difference between scrubbing down components and leaving them wet for up to an hour- and immersing them under a few inches of water for a few minutes. To summarize the whole issue: The materials in electronic components are not water soluble, but they can be damaged by moisture that is adsorbed into them when voltage is applied. However... no moisture remains in them after the drying process. That is the key... after proper drying there is no moisture at all left inside. Also, the real benefit of ultrasonic cleaning is that it removes not only dirt, it removes tarnish from years of corrosion. And most importantly, it removes tarnish from wiring, inside tube sockets, jacks, switches and pots. There is no other practical way to do this that doesn't require an inordinate period of hands on work, and the benefits are obvious. We would like to encourage experimentation with ultrasonic cleaning techniques. Our experience has been very positive. This could be a big step towards more complete restorations, giving longer life and more enjoyment for all us of these fantastic pieces of equipment. - Ken 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Thanks everyone. This is a great community and we are happy to be here, sharing and learning along with everyone. After experimenting with ultrasonic cleaning, we decided to share our experience with the community because it seems to us to be a method that can solve a lot of restoration problems associated with tarnish and corrosion. We totally understand the controversy over this method of cleaning. We did a lot of head scratching ourselves as we got into it. And no offense taken at all by the obvious concerns raised. We invite questions about these techniques. Being skeptical is not only healthy, its necessary in the case of new ideas. However, one can be skeptical of new ideas without being paralyzed by their preconceptions. If we let our prejudice limit our exploration of new ideas, we never make progress. As for "poof" that it works, we have tried to document our own experience with it, and address the issues around submersion of components. I first learned about these methods years ago in the manufacturing process, and later in restoring vintage tube equipment, including audio and ham radio gear. I personally have many pieces of tube equipment from the 50's and 60's that I restored many years ago by submerging them in hot soapy water in a large sink for up to an hour while they were hand scrubbed. And they are all still "show case'"quality in looks, and function like new with most of the original components still in place. The video we linked to by Bob Sumption is a great resource to learn about restoring old tube gear. Most of the methods he demonstrates translates directly to any tube gear, not just radios. The video linked is only one in a longer series. Bob is an advanced class amateur radio operator and retired electronics engineer, and extremely knowledgeable on these subjects, having actually designed tube gear back in the day. He is very highly respected in the amateur ham radio community. There is no real difference between scrubbing down components and leaving them wet for up to an hour- and immersing them under a few inches of water for a few minutes. To summarize the whole issue: The materials in electronic components are not water soluble, but they can be damaged by moisture that is adsorbed into them when voltage is applied. However... no moisture remains in them after the drying process. That is the key... after proper drying there is no moisture at all left inside. Also, the real benefit of ultrasonic cleaning is that it removes not only dirt, it removes tarnish from years of corrosion. And most importantly, it removes tarnish from wiring, inside tube sockets, jacks, switches and pots. There is no other practical way to do this that doesn't require an inordinate period of hands on work, and the benefits are obvious. We would like to encourage experimentation with ultrasonic cleaning techniques. Our experience has been very positive. This could be a big step towards more complete restorations, giving longer life and more enjoyment for all us of these fantastic pieces of equipment. - Ken Okay finally a reasonable response to the actual concerns I raised.... I'm glad you have had good luck with this and at least gave some real background on the subject, although I'd still like some third party proof from customers years down the road before I'd truly believe it, which I know is not currently available. But regardless again thanks for the reasonable and well thought out response that address my concerns. Edited May 3, 2015 by NOSValves 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Welcome to the community Ken--This is a fun place even when folks don't stay on/off their meds. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Yes, this is the same AEA, and the same people who designed the 520. My name is Ken Leonard and I was the lead designer. Thanks! Always nice to hear from someone who remembers the 520. And I'm always happy to answer any questions about the old AEA line. There is an interesting story about the 520 preamp and how I came to design it on our site at http://aeaaudio.com/legacy-page/. It was actually very much as you described - a crazy startup challenging the SP3. My son, Lloyd Leonard, who convinced me to recently restart AEA and who now works for the company, originally wrote and posted this thread, sharing the method of cleaning and the restoration process we currently use. Ken I've noticed you included Tone Controls (selectable if desired) in the AEA 520 pre-amp which I consider valuable features due to non-standards in the recording-playback-listening room chain. I actually run the EV DC-One DSP unit for my Jubilee system for bi-amp operation but also I have filters programed to simulate the Cello Palette Tone Control adjustment features which I find invaluable for my enjoyment of many less than ideal recordings. Just curious due to your background have you used or experienced any of the Cello equipment with tone controls and how do you feel about Tone Controls today? miketn Edited May 4, 2015 by mikebse2a3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted May 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 4, 2015 Ken, welcome to the forums. I love the detail of your post and the professionalism you have used, especially when responding to what I believe is inappropriate criticism. The reason I say inappropriate is because this is AEA's method of restoring a vintage piece. If someone chooses to restore a piece of gear one way, good for them. We should keep in mind that it's THEIR method. If you don't like the way they do it, fine. Do it your way but I feel it's unfair to say their work isn't a "proper restoration" simply because it's not the way you would do it yourself and criticizing their pricing structure is IMO unnecessary. Asking questions is one thing....making derogatory comments about a business is another. I have learned over the years, it's not what you say, it's how you say it that determines how it's interpreted. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted May 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 4, 2015 To expand on Youthman's post, yes welcome to the forums. Additionally, I would like to remind our forum members that abusive behavior in any form will not be tolerated. Name calling, accusations or insinuations are not acceptable. I have once again deleted comments, pruned and edited posts in this thread. From here out warning points will be issued, and being banned is a real possibility if it continues. Please keep your opinions to yourself if you can not contribute anything worthwhile. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted May 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 4, 2015 Well said Christy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxr dad Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Welcome to the Forum AEA. I have to say you handled the situation with the dignity and respect. Very professional of you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 To expand on Youthman's post, yes welcome to the forums. Additionally, I would like to remind our forum members that abusive behavior in any form will not be tolerated. Name calling, accusations or insinuations are not acceptable. I have once again deleted comments, pruned and edited posts in this thread. From here out warning points will be issued, and being banned is a real possibility if it continues. Please keep your opinions to yourself if you can not contribute anything worthwhile. Note registered and taken...but if you moderators are going to prune out insults and accusations I suggest you do them in all instances and not selectively... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Chad Posted May 4, 2015 Administrators Share Posted May 4, 2015 To expand on Youthman's post, yes welcome to the forums. Additionally, I would like to remind our forum members that abusive behavior in any form will not be tolerated. Name calling, accusations or insinuations are not acceptable. I have once again deleted comments, pruned and edited posts in this thread. From here out warning points will be issued, and being banned is a real possibility if it continues. Please keep your opinions to yourself if you can not contribute anything worthwhile. Note registered and taken...but if you moderators are going to prune out insults and accusations I suggest you do them in all instances and not selectively... This will happen moving forward (not necessarily retroactively) along with using the warning point system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Would Klipsch approve of ultra sonic cleaning of its crossovers with water and sound waves? Just wondering. I never tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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