Mains set to Large?

[timdog5000]

Ok. This is probably a rookie question, however I'am here to learn so here goes. I've read numerous posts about people setting mains to large, I even do it myself occasionally when listening to music. My question is if running mains on large on movies wouldn't the low frequencies damage my speaks? I realize it can rob an AVR of wattage pushing the drivers in the mains unnecessarily, but I have a B&K 200.7 so that should be a moot point right? My RF-7ii's are not rated to go as low as subs so how would it not damage them? Please help me with my confusion, I'm almost positive it's a dumb question but I don't want to be the kid in class not wanting to put his hand up. Thanx Fellas! And or ladies.

[Schu]

No...

[timdog5000]

So if the speakers cannot reproduce those frequencies they will do just that, not produce them? It won't cause distortion or anything like that? Those frequencies are just best handled by the sub?

[Scrappydue]

It can cause distortion depending on how loud you listen. It can cause phase issues with your subs. Power doesn't matter since your amped up

some guys do it cause it gives a fuller sound. I listen loud enough id rather not risk damage. Other guys do it just cause they are thinking " I have dual 10's why wouldn't they run as large". To each their own. My 6 15's in my lcr are crossed at 80hz. That's the smoothest transition to subs in my room. Before when I had the thx ultra I crossed at 100 as my subs played smoother from 80-100 than the little 6.5" woofers did according to my room sweeps.

[timdog5000]

I listen at pretty loud levels, I wasn't considering switching mine to Large for movies I just did not understand how it could not mess up the speakers when LFE plays

[Sancho Panza]

All my speakers are set to Large; sounds better.

LFE+Main

Crossovers as Set by AVR after running Audyssey.

LPF for LFE 120Hz

Edited April 24, 2015 by Sancho Panza

[gadgtfreek]

I have plenty of juice now, but I'll still go 60hz and small for the fronts. I could go 40, but their cutoff is close to that, and I have 2 15" subs to handle the rest. IMO, just being able to use something lower than 80 on the fronts will add to the soundstage, and ease some burden on the subs. 

 

I also started crossing the LFE channel at 80 instead of 120. 

[Paducah Home Theater]

I listen at pretty loud levels, I wasn't considering switching mine to Large for movies I just did not understand how it could not mess up the speakers when LFE plays

 

It doesn't, (or at least shouldn't in my opinion) work that way by default when watching movies.  I may be totally wrong since much of this is voodoo magic, but here's my understanding of it.  

 

Basically if any signal comes through the LFE channel, it should be routed to the subs and the subs only, regardless of where you set your mains.  Setting your mains to large or small doesn't make any difference.  What it does do, is reroute any bass from your mains to you subs, which is a pet peeve of mine.  If the movie track calls for an electric guitar, a tom, a gunshot, a low male voice, etc., around 70-80 hz to be sent to your mains, setting your mains to small and crossing them over at 80 will send part of that material to your subs, which I don't think is accurate.  Higher quality movies don't usually have super strong super low material being sent to your mains anyway so usually it doesn't matter all that much.  

 

You can in fact purposely reroute your LFE channel to your mains on many systems, especially high end preamps.  Otherwise, unless you do this, your LFE channel has a crossover that is separate from the mains.  Even if your mains are set to large, your LFE channel is probably at 80 hz at the lowest.  

 

What's even more confusing is that if you set your frequency response by EQ'ing with a sine wave on the total system, you are bypassing any LFE settings.  If your LFE channel crossover is set higher than your mains like many people apparently do, running a full system sine wave isn't totally accurate.  

 

Realistically the only negative thing I've ever experienced by watching a movie and crossing the mains over low is that certain material is a power drain on a receiver.  That's about it.  Amps should do this better.  Otherwise I think it sounds better in terms of accuracy if you can cross your mains as low as they can handle.  The subs can produce some of this material more efficiently but at least in my opinion that doesn't mean it sounds better in terms of quality.  

 

What potentially sucks though, is that your receiver remembers this setting when you listen to music.  So if you cross over real low or run full range, your subs may not do what you expect when you pop in a CD.  I haven't played with this in awhile though, can't comment accurately, but your mains may try to produce the boom on rap tunes or whatever since it is full range music and does not have an LFE channel.  

Edited April 24, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[gadgtfreek]

I agree 100%. An 80hz cross for mains and a center isnt "bad", but Id rather at least be 60hz. 80hz to me is still a little directional, and deep voices will be over in the subs too. Only complaint about the 64ii, it's not a 60hz center.

 

So small and 60 or 40 sends all front channel material under it to the subs. Large/full range means the fronts are responsible for everything on that front channel, by themselves. I am not sure I would be fond of that either. If you have material in the front channels that is low, chances are the fronts arent going to handle it as well as a sub, and in the case of anything below 40hz and the RF7 that is most likely for sure.

Edited April 24, 2015 by gadgtfreek

[gadgtfreek]

I also think, and I am not a big  music listener other than blu-ray audio, you could have two different setting modes for music and HT.

[Zen Traveler]

Ok. This is probably a rookie question, however I'am here to learn so here goes. I've read numerous posts about people setting mains to large, I even do it myself occasionally when listening to music. My question is if running mains on large on movies wouldn't the low frequencies damage my speaks? I realize it can rob an AVR of wattage pushing the drivers in the mains unnecessarily, but I have a B&K 200.7 so that should be a moot point right? My RF-7ii's are not rated to go as low as subs so how would it not damage them? Please help me with my confusion, I'm almost positive it's a dumb question but I don't want to be the kid in class not wanting to put his hand up. Thanx Fellas! And or ladies.

 

Fwiw, it may be a moot point if your subwoofers are up to par, but for most the question would be which would hit those notes more efficiently-speaker or sub. Granted, if you have an external power amp you have more leeway but running your speakers as SMALL and setting a crossover will usually give you more bang-for-your-buck if you have the lower end covered by quality subwoofer. 

Edited April 24, 2015 by tkdamerica

[timdog5000]

I had a wrong understanding then, I thought when you set a speaker to large the crossover was bypassed. However, my AVR – Yamaha RX A1010 only allows a crossover for all speakers. Not separate crossovers. It was over a grand when I bought it so not a cheapie but not high-end either. Only after getting on this forum did I find out about Audyssey and MCACC. I'll have to do some experimenting this weekend

[Zen Traveler]

I also think, and I am not a big  music listener other than blu-ray audio, you could have two different setting modes for music and HT.

 

Fwiw, I am a big Multichannel Music listener, Movie watcher and don't change a thing after running Audyssey (except appropriate settings) and watch/isten to every thing using the Audyssey curve and Dolby PLIIz....YMMV.

[tromprof]

I assumed they all worked about the same but for MCACC the large setting allows the mains to go as low as they can but the sub crossover is unaffected. In my case the sub is set to 50HZ but the mains are large. This works well for the QP bass bins since they run out of steam very quickly below 50HZ. When I had K-horns however I needed to set them to small since they go down solidly to 35HZ and it mucked up things.

Edited April 24, 2015 by tromprof

[gadgtfreek]

 

I also think, and I am not a big  music listener other than blu-ray audio, you could have two different setting modes for music and HT.

 

Fwiw, I am a big Multichannel Music listener, Movie watcher and don't change a thing after running Audyssey (except appropriate settings) and watch/isten to every thing using the Audyssey curve and Dolby PLIIz....YMMV.

 

Thats been me. I run Audyssey, go in and tweak the level and speaker settings I know to do, and I leave it alone after that.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I thought when you set a speaker to large the crossover was bypassed. However, my AVR – Yamaha RX A1010 only allows a crossover for all speakers.

The crossovers on the mains at least ideally and normally should have nothing to do with the LFE channel.

 

Edited April 24, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[sean5340]

I think it's trial and error. My 5.1 is all in ceiling speakers including the sub and I run the mains at 50hz. To my ears it's a little richer and I don't have any bottoming out issues. The sub is cut at 70hz.

 

I have tried several combinations and this is where it sounds best to me. You should try several scenarios in my opinion.

[Paducah Home Theater]

for most the question would be which would hit those notes more efficiently-speaker or sub.

Anything below 80 a sub is always going to be more efficient. That's not the whole story though.

Let's say you have one sub, which is boosted 6 db, located in your front right corner or behind you, your crossover is set to 80, even though your towers could handle lower. This is a pretty common setup. Let's say that you're watching a movie and a low male voice around 80 hz is sent to your front left main. Which do you think would sound better:

1. that voice coming through nothing but that left main like it was recorded

2. the upper frequencies of the voice coming through your left main while a 6 db hot version of the lower frequencies of that voice coming through your subwoofers on the other side of the room, which is exactly what is going to happen here.

This is a very real possibility. Same scenario happens with gunshots and common musical instruments. A low E on an electric guitar is 82 hz and drop D tuning is even lower, I think at 73 hz. No reason to send that to your subs in my opinion. Bass guitars can really get goofy, you can hear them jamming through the mains and it sounds nice, then suddenly they get below the cutoff and you get some exaggerated notes that are of a different tone and possibly from a different location. The more your mains can handle the more this stuff is prevented.

Edited April 24, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[CECAA850]

I'll be the voice of dissent then.

 

If you're mains cabinets are tuned to 32Hz and you feed them a really hot content with a lot of 20-25Hz stuff, the box will no longer be protecting the woofers, causing over excursion and damaging the drivers.  I would certainly think it would be possible.  Probable is another question.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I'll be the voice of dissent then.

 

If you're mains cabinets are tuned to 32Hz and you feed them a really hot content with a lot of 20-25Hz stuff, the box will no longer be protecting the woofers, causing over excursion and damaging the drivers.  I would certainly think it would be possible.  Probable is another question.

Personally I think crossing your mains over at 40 hz gets all the benefits of running as large but with added protection from situations like this. I'm not sure you could tell the difference on movies.

Edited April 24, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters