Home Theatre Build

[bloatedfish]

Hi all,

 

I'm about to press the go button on a new house with dedicated home theatre and need some help with the selection and setup.

I've been researching and reading up on a few forums but there is just so much information and different choices out there its all too easy to be lost.

I'd appreciate some help with the following:

• Klipsch seem to be on a product release rampage and have a heap of new stuff. I'm not sure what I should be looking for.
• I'm not sure if there are any retailers near me that have them on demo. Buying speakers without auditioning them first is akin to buying a pair of shoes without trying them on. Hence I'm relying on the wider community to help with the selection process. I'm after a 'general concensus' so I can get a 'feel' of what to expect.
• Room setup and equipment selection - speakers, subs, amps, pre-amps, placement, acoustic treatment... your thoughts appreciated on what you have used and what works better/best.

 

Quick run down on the details:

• I'm building in Perth, Australia. So all dimensions in mm and costs factored around what can be provided locally. I'm open to suggestions for buying stuff overseas if its a good saving and risks are low.
• Room size is locked down. See attachment. Going for a 7.2.4 Atmos setup, though with DTS:X and Auro3D I'm not sure what to expect here.
• Ideally the front of the theatre would be transparent screen with speakers behind but I'm concerned with the speakers with rear firing sub ports. I'd probably also save a heap of money if I went for non transparent screen and speakers located in front.
• I've been a fan of Klipsch hence my interest in this forum. I also like Elac. I've heard a heap of other makes including Revel, Def Tech, Kef, Jamo, JBL, MA, B&W, MK in different setups. I have a 80% movies, 20% music listening split.
• I've been a fan of Denon amps. What is the most 'elegant' and simplest way to power everything?
• Budget is negotiable. I'd rather spend more on speakers and not change that as long as the quality is there. Same goes for power amps. Pre-amps/processors will upgrade over time. For a start lets say AU$15,000 for the audio component. Visual component (projector, screen etc) will be another budget.

 

Any assistance appreciated.

 

Regards,

bloatedfish

 

Ps. not sure if this is the correct topic forum. Should this go into Architectural?

Edited April 26, 2015 by bloatedfish

[angusruler]

welcome , first off, and you cake to the right place, help will be along!

 

when I can't hear some speakers I'm interested in, it doesn't really bother me that much. since every rooms acoustice are very different, speakers that sound good in a retail setting might sound poopy when I get them home, and vice versa.

 

I just make sure the speakers are "exchangeable."

 

 

oh.....we LOVE pictures!!!!

[robbiey60]

Gday mate, I am across the ditch in NZ so I will assume prices may be similar? Also I will assume there is not a huge used market similar to here? I would recommend definately an rf7ii based system, here the price is $NZ5000 for 2 rf7ii. If you can swing it a 3rd rf7 as center would be best but rc64ii is a more than competent center. From there it depends what speakers you want/can fit. I am not a fan of bi/dipole so I would go rf82iis as surrounds, and maybe rb61/81 as rear surrounds. I have just dropped back to 6.1 from 7.1 as I felt it images better but ymmv. This will be close to $NZ10000. Spend big on a sub. $NZ3000 will get something decent ie svs pb13 ultra etc. Get a decent mid range receiver with pre-outs for future amp purchases. You may not even need seperate amps. This would be what I would do IF all is brand new and of course pricing reflects that of NZ. Later upgrades would be a 2nd sub and seperate amps. Bear in mind this is just my opinion, you should get a lot more round here lol. Good luck anyway mate!

[robbiey60]

Gday mate, I am across the ditch in NZ so I will assume prices may be similar? Also I will assume there is not a huge used market similar to here? I would recommend definately an rf7ii based system, here the price is $NZ5000 for 2 rf7ii. If you can swing it a 3rd rf7 as center would be best but rc64ii is a more than competent center. From there it depends what speakers you want/can fit. I am not a fan of bi/dipole so I would go rf82iis as surrounds, and maybe rb61/81 as rear surrounds. I have just dropped back to 6.1 from 7.1 as I felt it images better but ymmv. This will be close to $NZ10000. Spend big on a sub. $NZ3000 will get something decent ie svs pb13 ultra etc. Get a decent mid range receiver with pre-outs for future amp purchases. You may not even need seperate amps. This would be what I would do IF all is brand new and of course pricing reflects that of NZ. Later upgrades would be a 2nd sub and seperate amps. Bear in mind this is just my opinion, you should get a lot more round here lol. Good luck anyway mate!

Sorry I neglected the fact you wanted atmos. Although atmos does not interest me I will say I would MUCH RATHER have an awsome 5/6/7 channel system than have a mediocre 5/6/7 ch + atmos. Like the amps, you may not even need ceiling speakers and if you do, they could come later without sacrificing on the main speakers.

[Scrappydue]

No if ands or buts. If you want to build a dedicated room and are even thinking about an transparent screen you HAVE to go with lcr speakers. Three rf-7ii would

Be a good trip. But like you said they are rear ported which kind of sucks. Does Australia have a Klipsch cinema dealer????

[bloatedfish]

The website is so confusing - what is the order of speaker performance?

Palladium > Reference II > Reference > Reference Premiere ?

How does the the sound change between the speaker range?

 

I'm thinking use LCR for the fronts but worried their performance for stereo music will be too harsh and lack bass control. Hence my hesitation.

I have heard the RF7-II in stereo and do like them alot but their rear firing port is going to cause trouble.

 

What should I do??

[robbiey60]

Palladium is top of the range, completely out of my price range and I have a lot of $$ in all of my gear. At a guess I would say at least 20k for the cheapest floorstanders. Next in line is the rf7ii which I recommended, top of the reference ii series. Reference premiere is the new series replacing reference ii, their best speaker is the equivalent to rf82ii. No replacement yet for the rf7ii, all other models are newer versions of the smaller reference ii line ie rf82ii and down. Reference is the bottom tier, direct replacement for synergy and icon lines. And just to confuse you even more there is heritage and cinema. Scrappy can tell you more about cinema, heritage fits somewhere between rf7ii and palladiums depending on who you ask. Not sure what you mean by lcr lacking in stereo and bass, lcr means the same identical speakers(3 rf7iis) as your left, center and right. For stereo listening you would use only left and right. On the rear ports, my rf83s are only 10cm from the rear wall and have PLENTY of bass. Not a huge room though, and if you get the subs I recommended your mains wont have to produce that bass.

Edited April 27, 2015 by robbiey60

[twistedcrankcammer]

Palladium is top of the range, completely out of my price range and I have a lot of $$ in all of my gear. At a guess I would say at least 20k for the cheapest floorstanders. Next in line is the rf7ii which I recommended, top of the reference ii series. Reference premiere is the new series replacing reference ii, their best speaker is the equivalent to rf82ii. No replacement yet for the rf7ii, all other models are newer versions of the smaller reference ii line ie rf82ii and down. Reference is the bottom tier, direct replacement for synergy and icon lines. And just to confuse you even more there is heritage and cinema. Scrappy can tell you more about cinema, heritage fits somewhere between rf7ii and palladiums depending on who you ask. Not sure what you mean by lcr lacking in stereo and bass, lcr means the same identical speakers(3 rf7iis) as your left, center and right. For stereo listening you would use only left and right. On the rear ports, my rf83s are only 10cm from the rear wall and have PLENTY of bass. Not a huge room though, and if you get the subs I recommended your mains wont have to produce that bass.

robbiey60,

Have you had the opportunity to directly A,B,C the top of the Line PF-39 Paladium, RF-7II Reference, and the Klipschorn Heritage at the flip of a switch in the same room at the same time? About 30 of us did just that in Hope, Arkansas a couple of weeks ago at the USA Klipsch plant and the ones I have talked to agree, it was not even close, the Klipschorn sounded best by a large margin, Reference and Paladium were MUCH closer, but in sound ONLY, I preferred the RF-7II over the PF-39s. The Paladiums definitely have the looks, AND the price tag, but that is all IMO.

My breakdown after personally hearing just about every one of the big boys ever made by Klipsch would be Klipsch Pro/Cinema, Heritage,...... Reference II, Paladium. I own RF-7 orriginals in my parents home theatre, but have not A/Bd them with RF-7IIs (Youthman here on the forum could better compare those two) I also have not personally heard Reference Premiere yet.

To the original poster, Are there used Klipschorns and LaScalas to be had in Australia, or are you willing to go that far over budget on speakers?

If like me, sound is by far the most important over looks, Cinema is absolutely the way to go. New, you could possibly look at Jubilees, around $7,000 USD here, but we have a seriously great second hand market and even better sounding for a lot less money is to pick up a pair of used MWM double bins and put a pair of the K-402 horns with K-69 Drivers from the Jubilees on top. Of course, space becomes the main issue when talking MWMs.

If you absolutely want new, I would consider new Heresey or Cornwalls from the Heritage line over RF-7IIs. The Hereseys are more than capable when an excellent subwoofer or two are added.

Your best sound for the money is ALWAYS going to be to put the bulk of your money in the speakers.

Roger

[robbiey60]

Palladium is top of the range, completely out of my price range and I have a lot of $$ in all of my gear. At a guess I would say at least 20k for the cheapest floorstanders. Next in line is the rf7ii which I recommended, top of the reference ii series. Reference premiere is the new series replacing reference ii, their best speaker is the equivalent to rf82ii. No replacement yet for the rf7ii, all other models are newer versions of the smaller reference ii line ie rf82ii and down. Reference is the bottom tier, direct replacement for synergy and icon lines. And just to confuse you even more there is heritage and cinema. Scrappy can tell you more about cinema, heritage fits somewhere between rf7ii and palladiums depending on who you ask. Not sure what you mean by lcr lacking in stereo and bass, lcr means the same identical speakers(3 rf7iis) as your left, center and right. For stereo listening you would use only left and right. On the rear ports, my rf83s are only 10cm from the rear wall and have PLENTY of bass. Not a huge room though, and if you get the subs I recommended your mains wont have to produce that bass.

robbiey60,

Have you had the opportunity to directly A,B,C the top of the Line PF-39 Paladium, RF-7II Reference, and the Klipschorn Heritage at the flip of a switch in the same room at the same time? About 30 of us did just that in Hope, Arkansas a couple of weeks ago at the USA Klipsch plant and the ones I have talked to agree, it was not even close, the Klipschorn sounded best by a large margin, Reference and Paladium were MUCH closer, but in sound ONLY, I preferred the RF-7II over the PF-39s. The Paladiums definitely have the looks, AND the price tag, but that is all IMO.

My breakdown after personally hearing just about every one of the big boys ever made by Klipsch would be Klipsch Pro/Cinema, Heritage,...... Reference II, Paladium. I own RF-7 orriginals in my parents home theatre, but have not A/Bd them with RF-7IIs (Youthman here on the forum could better compare those two) I also have not personally heard Reference Premiere yet.

To the original poster, Are there used Klipschorns and LaScalas to be had in Australia, or are you willing to go that far over budget on speakers?

If like me, sound is by far the most important over looks, Cinema is absolutely the way to go. New, you could possibly look at Jubilees, around $7,000 USD here, but we have a seriously great second hand market and even better sounding for a lot less money is to pick up a pair of used MWM double bins and put a pair of the K-402 horns with K-69 Drivers from the Jubilees on top. Of course, space becomes the main issue when talking MWMs.

If you absolutely want new, I would consider new Heresey or Cornwalls from the Heritage line over RF-7IIs. The Hereseys are more than capable when an excellent subwoofer or two are added.

Your best sound for the money is ALWAYS going to be to put the bulk of your money in the speakers.

Roger

Was referring to the price more than anything as I am not lucky enough to have heard anything other than my own gear. Makes me smile though that palladiums arent as far ahead as I had assumed.

[bloatedfish]

To the original poster, Are there used Klipschorns and LaScalas to be had in Australia, or are you willing to go that far over budget on speakers?

If like me, sound is by far the most important over looks, Cinema is absolutely the way to go. New, you could possibly look at Jubilees, around $7,000 USD here, but we have a seriously great second hand market and even better sounding for a lot less money is to pick up a pair of used MWM double bins and put a pair of the K-402 horns with K-69 Drivers from the Jubilees on top. Of course, space becomes the main issue when talking MWMs.

If you absolutely want new, I would consider new Heresey or Cornwalls from the Heritage line over RF-7IIs. The Hereseys are more than capable when an excellent subwoofer or two are added.

Your best sound for the money is ALWAYS going to be to put the bulk of your money in the speakers.

Roger

 

 

Roger - what are you referring to in the Cinema range? Jubilee's? MWMs? Your reference to space indicates they would suit something larger than my room permits?

Sorry for my ignorance but is that the professional large theatre gear? Will I need a nuclear power plant to run them?

What do I run for surrounds and ceiling?

 

..fish.

[Scrappydue]

Look up a kpt-325. Probably the MOST home friendly sized cinema speaker in the line up. And will walk circles around an rf-7ii. Plus front Ported! And no an avr will drive the extremely efficient cinema speakers to insane levels.

[Scrappydue]

Look up kpt-325 for front three then maybe the kpt-8000m's for surrounds

[bloatedfish]

Look up kpt-325 for front three then maybe the kpt-8000m's for surrounds

 

Would these be too large to suit my moderate sized room?

I'm also not sure where to get these in Australia. Are they mainly sold to professional installers?

Does Klipsch offer international shipping if I bought from the US?

[Nismo]

Look up kpt-325 for front three then maybe the kpt-8000m's for surrounds

Here's a good article for the OP to check out:

 

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/crank-it-big-sound-big-picture

[Scrappydue]

Look up kpt-325 for front three then maybe the kpt-8000m's for surrounds

Would these be too large to suit my moderate sized room?

I'm also not sure where to get these in Australia. Are they mainly sold to professional installers?

Does Klipsch offer international shipping if I bought from the US?

absolutley not. My room is 11.5 feet wide and 23 feet deep. I have three kpt-904's and they smoke every Klipsch I have ever heard. And the price is so low for what you get. The problem is they are ugly. But if your doing a falsewall who cares. Then you are paying for 100% performance.

[Paducah Home Theater]

Only thing I have to add is that it appears that you have ten seats and others are saying spend a ton on a single sub, which I don't agree with. I'd be looking at multiple DIY 18's or at least make sure you get two factory subs. Personally I'd say just start out with four 18's. You're going to end up there anyway and its cheaper than a single good factory sub.

Edited April 30, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Paducah Home Theater]

Sorry I neglected the fact you wanted atmos. Although atmos does not interest me I will say I would MUCH RATHER have an awsome 5/6/7 channel system than have a mediocre 5/6/7 ch + atmos. Like the amps, you may not even need ceiling speakers and if you do, they could come later without sacrificing on the main speakers.

If he is building from scratch like I think he is, he needs to be prewiring for Atmos at the minimum, along with prewiring for most everything imaginable. Wire is cheap, retrofitting is what sucks. Even if he did go with Atmos, it is pretty cheap. Coaxial ceiling speakers just don't cost very much and most nicer receivers or preamps include it.

otherwise, mistakes I made when I built that you need to keep in mind:

1. not prewiring enough. I prewired what seemed to be a ridiculous amount but still wish I did more. Subs, atmos, bi-amping, floor level surrounds, elevated surrounds, front height, just go crazy.

2. should have had more dedicated electrical circuits around the rack area

3. should have made a dedicated A/V closet that also includes any routers, switches, and whatnot

4. not taking into account where the doors are located which messes up my stage and any possibility of a baffle wall

5. no "can" lights. external lights rattle more, can get in the way of projector lighting, and can lights can make for some nice effects while shining on a screen

6. should have wired it so that the projector could be wired to a UPS that is sitting in the rack

Edited April 30, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[bloatedfish]

Metropolis - Thanks for your words of advice. I'll take those into consideration. The UPS for the projector will be important.

 

I'm thinking two subs as a start with some under slab conduits and power for bass shakers.

But before I get to that stage I need to resolve the speakers and amplification.

Now that I'm being referred down the pro cinema range I'm also researching what I can actually get a hold of, not just in the Klipsch range but maybe also JBL

 

For those who have put in the Klipsch pro range what did you use and what would you recommend for my moderate room size of 2000 cubic feet? Do they sound natural for music?

[bloatedfish]

Ok its been a while but the house is almost there. Roof on, internal wall render started. Tiling, final fit-off, painting and flooring to go.

I've gone and got 4 x CDT-5650 CII's for the Atmos overheads.

Still after some more details on where I can get my hands on 3 x KPT-325's and maybe 4 x 8000 surrounds. Is there someone in the states that can assist together with maybe a freight forwarding company?

KPT is looking around AUD$4.5k EACH here in Australia retail! Its a bit rare for anyone here to know anything about them, or any of the pro cinema range tbh.

HELP ME!

Edited May 27, 2016 by bloatedfish

[Scrappydue]

Pm sent