Rivervalleymgb Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 I have owned a lot of direct radiators and the 802 are the best I have heard in my many listening spaces. The off-axis response is utterly amazing. The Klipschorns will go into a new listening room, the 802 will go into the home theater. I had originally planned on having the HT done with the Klispchorns, La Scala, Belles, and KP-201 with a tapped horn sub. I am keeping all the above and getting rid of my other vintage speaks that I have held onto over the decades. That includes a couple of Epics, OLA, Mach Ones, Altec 9842d monitors, Altec Model 8, and on and on. I have enough vintage Altec for a HT, also using an orphaned Altec Model 14 as a center (all Mantaray horns in an HT). My next project is gutting my tubed consoles that are taking up space. How did I gather up so much gear??? and over 10,000 LP's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 So now we know how to physically time align the mid and tweeters but how would you position (inches/feet) them in regards to the lower bass section? JJK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Move the top hats back 6.8 feet.... ...or... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Move the top hats back 6.8 feet.... ...or... I would have to make 6.8 foot projections sticking out of the house living room. HMMM, I wonder how that would look from the outside. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 You didn't ask about the "or"... It's much more cost effective and has many more advantages than just time alignment...but don't get cheap if you go that way. Just like good speakers, buy good equipment--not the cheap stuff like Bose puts out. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Chris, A serious question for you or anyone else who has gone active. I know the minidsp boxes use 48kHz sampling rate. Would it be beneficial to go higher, i.e., 96, 88.2, 192, etc? Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Chris, A serious question for you or anyone else who has gone active. I know the minidsp boxes use 48kHz sampling rate. Would it be beneficial to go higher, i.e., 96, 88.2, 192, etc? Bruce Different clock speeds affect latency. This could affect delay settings on the Mini DSP if you are copying settings made for another processor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Bruce, in a word: "yes" I've got a couple of EV Dx38s (48 kHz) and a Yamaha SP2060 (96 kHz) --all bought second hand. You can definitely hear the difference in quality, although I'm not sure all the differences are due solely to sample rate/clock speed. I'd also point to better op amps and other analog components of the later generation SP2060 and perhaps avoidance of polar caps in the signal path (although I'm not sure about the latter point). I recommend avoiding the lowest price miniDSPs and DCX-2496 crossovers for listening quality, but if you're into DIY, I can definitely understand the tinkering itch of the miniDSP. I'd personally avoid the DCX2496 due to limitations in the basic design. I might be able to find the thread over on DIYAudio that discusses this. EDIT: note that the DCX2496 is 24/96, but it has noted listening artifacts based on architecture alone. Chris Edited May 1, 2015 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The link to the DCX-2496 improvement thread--it's a good read: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/237603-dcx2496-upgrade-board-objectively-tackling-improvement-stock-dcx2496.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I am surprised that you would pick what you deem to be the better sounding speaker for the HT, and the lesser of the two for a dedicated music room. I would have gone exactly the opposite way. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 in a word: "yes" I pretty much thought so. I was actually looking at a plugin for multitrack recording software, that could split audio, add delays, etc. and feed to a multi out interface. Yes, it would cost more overall, since a computer to run said software would also be required, but I like the idea, even if just for trying. Was also thinking of getting it for other reasons, but I've not been able to justify he expense yet. http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_MB7Mixer/ Up to 7 bands. Here's a couple screen shots of the plugin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 I am surprised that you would pick what you deem to be the better sounding speaker for the HT, and the lesser of the two for a dedicated music room. I would have gone exactly the opposite way. Shakey I love the sound of both. The main difference is in horns vs. direct radiator. I like the smaller home theater room for the 802, and the larger space for Klipschorns. Besides, I got such a fantastic deal on the pair of 802 with matching sub, center, and 805 for the rears, I couldn't pass up the full complement! I also have enough in my collection to make a full Heritage HT, and also a full vintage Altec HT. Who knows which way this hobby will go with all the new teh coming now and in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Now that I have a full complement of VRD's for the "three channel" system, I am having second thoughts on inserting a digital signal into the path. Also thinking of converting the K-horns and Belles into two-ways. Will the tinkering ever stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Addictions are hard to shake until you run out of money or credit, in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswhotakesphotos Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 What's the benefit of two-way versus three-way? I haven't heard as many Klipsch speakers as many of the folks around here, but in my experience comparing my new-to-me H2s to the RP-280F, it seems a separate mid horn really lets the mids breathe in a way I've never heard from other speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The problem always is in the tweeter-midrange crossover: I haven't seen a single instance where the tweeter and midrange drivers are time-aligned, and that the coverage angles of the two horns (tweeter and midrange) match each other in the crossover frequency band. The reason I believe that most people go for 3-ways is the ease of finding lower cost midrange and tweeter drivers that can cover the entire frequency range, typically from about 400--800 Hz to 20 kHz, with low distortion, and with consistent constant coverage angles all the way up. If you can find a driver/horn combination that can cover this range with low distortion and good coverage, then eliminating one HF crossover (with its typical problems) is a pretty big deal. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I've heard these a number of times and certainly don't think they sound better than Klipschorn's. I believe these are the top of the line for B&W are they not. Not near as dynamic at any listening level and they were paired with really high end gear. My buddy has two pair one in black another in rosewood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 The picture doesn't show 802 Diamonds. I also didn't say they sounded better. They showed me the time alignment problems of the Klipschorn. The Klipschorn sound equally well as the 802 Diamonds, with the only difference being the time-alignment and the difference between direct radiators and horns. I would sell the 802's before the Klipschorns, but the 802D were bought for my wife. Plus, she would never let me sell the K-horns, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I had the B&W N801s and S800s and all of the heritage. The B&Ws have amazing midrange and clarity. They really eliminate the cabinet reflections (put your ear behind the marlin head and you can hear clearly, this is what would have been reflected off the cabinet). They also have the tweeter right next to the midrange driver and they blend as well as a coaxial speaker. The power that you are using sounds very low for 800 series. I used 700 wpc (Classe CAM350 and Bryson 7Bs - 4 ohm speakers) and they needed it. The K horns has way more impact, but much worse imaging (flat with a hole in the middle bottom) and broke up at high volume. This was with the K77's and K55 and K-400. The B&Ws just get louder, the K Horns sound different when played louder. My annoyance with the B&Ws was needing so much power. I wound up with Palladiums, which have more impact and need way less power. They were a lateral move from the B&Ws. My annoyance with the Palladiums is having to listen to "Dude, for that much you could have bought blah blah blah..." That does not seem to happen with the B&W 800s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) If I'm thread drifting too far, please let me know and I'll post this in its own place. My interest from this thread is in the various comments on time alignment of the tweeters. I've got to go for now, but I'd like to ask some more questions later. Here is my Khorn with a SEOS 12" waveguide, DNA-360 compression driver. It is wired up to a stock Korn from the tweeter section, no other mods. The Left side was left stock for A/B comparison. I could notice a difference in a taller sound stage, but I'll comment more later. I'm wondering what those of you with Khorn/La Scala/AA crossover think of this alignment. The SEOS 12 is sitting on some makeshift mouse pads for ease of experimentation. Edited June 23, 2016 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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