MercedesBerater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Also forgot. Your trade in value is also negotiable. However- this gets very touchy because now the dealer is in control and you're trying to hold gross profit on the sale of your car. Feels a little different when the roles change. Also- this is the one last bastion where dealers can keep their profit. They guesstimate- I'll sell new ford X to him for $750 over what I owe on the car - plus what we owe service for getting it detailed and repaired to lot ready... So I'll buy used ford Z from him at $5,000 knowing it needs a bearing and brake repair and probably $500 more to have it "safety" ready for the lot. So I'll sell it for $7500, get haggled down again:.. And make $750 on this. Now if you start cutting into his quick sale model of what he might sell it for and how popular it'll be etc etc-- you'll get push back. Again- they are there to operate a business and turn a profit. In service. I don't haggle. Ever. This is the price. And if people try and bully me into matching a "competitor" that's 1.5 hours away... I tell them, here's our complimentary refreshments area- looks like you have a 1.5 hour drive to make. Sales will do anything. They'll also promise stuff from service like free oil changes and whatever. If this happens (awful idea- service will get screwed on that deal- sales doesn't- so service will try and make that money back somehow. Hopefully ethically) Make sure you know how to receive said free oil changes. What if management changes? Will it just be a word of mouth? A punch card? Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) First, ditch the Ford. Get an import. Sorry, but I just do not have any faith in domestic manufacturers. Case in point: your wheel bearing at 93k. Toyota, Nissan, etc. Are just getting broke in at 93k. I know I've probably touched a nerve, but it's just the way I feel. http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-recalls-112500-cars-for-power-steering-electric-motor-failures/ http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/toyota-recalls-803000-vehicles-in-the-us-including-2012-13-camry.html http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/10/investing/toyota-recall/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/03/06/nissan-recall-hood-latches-altima/24506397/ http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/11/09/nissan-recalls-52000-vehicles-due-to-faulty-airbags/ http://time.com/3753689/nissan-airbag-recalls/ I'm not going to take that bait, Michael. Suffice to say I think it was GM that killed a bunch of people before owning up to needing to recall about what, 20 million cars for a faulty ignition switch that they knew about for years? yup, you're right.. but we're talking about Ford. Not me. I wasn't being so specific. "First, ditch the Ford. Get an import. Sorry, but I just do not have any faith in domestic manufacturers." From Consumer Reports about the most reliable car brands (April 2014): Japanese brands dominated, taking seven of the top eight spots. Following the three highest-scoring are Subaru, Toyota, Mazda, Honda, and Infiniti. The only Japanese brand that wasn’t in the upper half is Nissan, which ranks 18th out of the 23 makes in our analysis. At the other end of the spectrum, Jeep and Ford tied for the lowest score. Edited May 1, 2015 by Steven1963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) The last time I bought a car was a year and a half ago. We went to first dealer, spent a while, and finally, the sales manager told me, "This is the best we can do." I had him confirm it by telling him I was going to keep looking. He said it again. I went to the next dealership. It was already dark by that point. Told them, "I already got a bottom-line price at X dealer. I am probably going to get it. I am just coming by here to satisfy myself that they have given me the best price. It would not be fair for me to tell you what price they gave me, so I won't tell you. I have a trade-in. You need to include what you will give me for it. The only number I care about is how big a check I have to write you after you take my trade-in. Just give me your best price. If you beat theirs, you just sold the car." They really did not like competing against an unknown figure, but sure enough, they came back and beat the other price by almost $500, plus the car had 19 miles on it instead of 5,000. The first dealership was quoting me on a new "demo" car which had 5,000 miles. I was happy to get the one with 19 miles for $500 less. Dealers make money on extended warranties, after-market options and accessories, your trade-in, manufacturer spiffs and hold-backs. Mfg spiffs are where the mfg will have a promotion where they give dealers bonus cash for selling certain model cars. These are not always happening for all models. They are at certain times. Hold-backs are just an accounting gimmick. Dealers will have something like a $1,250 hold-back on a car. This way, the salesmen don't know what the real profit is. They think it is $1,250 less. He sells the car, gets his commission of $275 and thinks the dealer just made $250. Nope. The dealer just made $1,500. There are always hold-backs. They are not seasonal or sporadic. But you are never going to know how much they are. The salesman probably doesn't even know. Edited May 1, 2015 by Jeff Matthews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I hate to confuse you with even more information, but lenders pay kickbacks to dealers for loans, and since you are borrowing, they will have yet another opportunity to make (take) more money (from you). At the end of the year, dealers get manufacturer kickbacks also. That is why many can sell for under invoice. I have a friend who owns a dealership, and he told me they make their money in parts, not in the sale of a new vehicle. I agree with mercedesberater about brake lines. I never splice with compression fittings. No reputable mechanic ever should... Double flare is the only way to go, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I hate to confuse you with even more information, but lenders pay kickbacks to dealers for loans, and since you are borrowing, they will have yet another opportunity to make (take) more money (from you). At the end of the year, dealers get manufacturer kickbacks also. That is why many can sell for under invoice. I have a friend who owns a dealership, and he told me they make their money in parts, not in the sale of a new vehicle. I agree with mercedesberater about brake lines. I never splice with compression fittings. No reputable mechanic ever should... Double flare is the only way to go, IMO. Yes, they make money on the financing, too. It's often times $800 or so. The statement by your friend that they don't make money on the sale of the new vehicle is not true in many cases. It might be in his, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 After seeing the latest prices I started looking at Smart cars. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The way to get a good deal with car dealerships nowadays is to avoid them and use the internet and be willing to drive. Use cars.com to search within several hundred miles of your location. Somewhere out there somebody has the car you want and they want to move it. You typically won't find good deals locally by learning how to haggle. I did this with my jeep, drove from western Kentucky to 10 hours away in Oklahoma, saved $7,000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) I hate to confuse you with even more information, but lenders pay kickbacks to dealers for loans, and since you are borrowing, they will have yet another opportunity to make (take) more money (from you). This is usually a good thing though, you can typically get a better price by financing. Dealers don't like cash sales as much because of this and may not negotiate as much. At the end of the year, dealers get manufacturer kickbacks also. That is why many can sell for under invoice. They get manufacturer rebates all year round. What is most confusing is what's called "holdback", and a near car dealer actually makes more money by moving a new car ASAP, not by it hanging around and having to go on clearance. But yeah a new jeep can be sold for less than invoice all year round due to the dealer rebate and holdback. I have a friend who owns a dealership, and he told me they make their money in parts, not in the sale of a new vehicle. They make money but it depends on which vehicle it is as to how much it is. Expensive jeeps for example usually only makes them about $2,000. I've seen cheaper cars in some markets like south florida make them $7,000 though. Just kind of weird. This is why you see so many dealers taking brand new trucks and jeeps and jacking them up with tires and a lift. It's like they can make $2,000 on the vehicle, or they can bolt some crap to it and triple their profits. It works. We had a big time problem finding our jeep because of this, the color and package combination was very popular for dealers to modify. They'd take a $35,000 jeep rubicon then put bigger tires on it and ask $45,000. Just kind of ridiculous. Edited May 1, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 OK, here's my very "bottom line" opinion....I am in my "late" 50's, and have bought a bunch of cars, made a lot of mistakes, and learned lots of lessons..... 1. It's just a car, something to get you from point A to point B 2. Relative to the amount of time you will spend in your home, or in class, the time you spend in your car is minor 3. With the current and projected cost of fuel, buy the most fuel efficient vehicle you can within your budget, even 3-4 mpg difference adds up. 4. Even something that you can't initially "warm up to", will become a lot more palatable when you are spending less at the pump, less for insurance, less for a monthly payment.... 5. It's just a car 6. It's just a car 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercedesBerater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 After seeing the latest prices I started looking at Smart cars. JJK Stay AWAY from smart cars. Daimler owns them and they are garbage. We have them in the states to bring our economy numbers in check - balanced against our hot rod AMG's. They're expensive to repair because it's Benz parts... They're clunky, handle terribly, no power, and they'll blow away when you storm chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercedesBerater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I very much recommend looking at a used Jetta TDI around 2010 or newer. The passats are the better car so Jetta diesel ranked in value. I get 50+ mpg on highway on my diesel. Super low cost of ownership. Nice car- love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) "First, ditch the Ford. Get an import. Sorry, but I just do not have any faith in domestic manufacturers." From Consumer Reports about the most reliable car brands (April 2014): Japanese brands dominated... Mazda It's funny how people acted about the Ford Probe and Ranger. Probe was made by Mazda and the Mazda trucks and Ford Rangers were the same thing. But even then, Mazda was awesome because it was foreign and anything with a Ford emblem sucked because it wasn't. If reliability is the goal, any mechanic will tell you Toyota is the way to go. Other cars do weird things like the aforementioned Probe where to get to the back 3 spark plugs you have to unbolt the engine and pivot the whole thing forward. Just ridiculous. Toyota doesn't do weird mess like that. Edited May 1, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) A big overlooked issue with cars is the residual value. Jeep, Toyota, Honda, they all do really well. Mercedes, Cadillac, Dodge, maybe not so much. Ford trucks much better than Ford cars. Good gas mileage or whatever isn't quite so nice when you go to sell it and you lose several thousand dollars as compared to had you chose the alternative. Edited May 1, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 1, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 1, 2015 I just traded in my 2010 BMW 528 for a 2015 Ford Flex. I did it because i want to quit working and start the proverbial endless road trip -- the Flex has enough room for me to sleep in and to carry a guitar or two. I’m in NO WAY an expert in this area; but, here is something to think about. I got it for $289 over invoice--tells me there that (1) the dealer lies about the invoice; (2) they’re going to make the lion’s share of their money elsewhere. Enter the extended warranty and service plan. I tried to get 50% off the extended warranty; but, ended up with 25% - 30% off. So, don’t forget to negotiate EVERYTHING. Now, there is a holiday coming up, so there will most likely be some sales and/or promotions. With your negotiating, special offers from Ford -- you may end up with a favorable deal. Plus, i’m guessing the 2016 models are coming soon and they may want to get rid of the 2015s on the lot. Just remember, this is a business. I’m all for getting a deal; but, i also support a fair deal. You surely can’t expect the dealer to take a loss. (I storm chase on the side). Regardless of what kind of car deal you score -- you’re the coolest guy on the forum. I’m a HUGE fan of extreme weather and have wanted to storm chase for years.Good luck man, Steve I think you are wrong on that Stew man, I think this is the coolest thing I have ever seen posted: "I did it because i want to quit working and start the proverbial endless road trip -- the Flex has enough room for me to sleep in and to carry a guitar or two." Makes me want to pull out On The However, the storm chasing "on the side" sure did did catch my attention. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) would be fine if it has a clean carfax and especially My Subaru Forester had a clean carfax, but it was a former lease car that had actually been in an accident. The person leasing the car had it repaired (radiator was damaged and fixed). I didn't catch it when I looked it over. When I took it in for the timing belt at whatever mileage it was due, they said they would have to replace the radiator. I love the car, the handling, etc., but I probably won't get another, especially from the only Subaru dealer in Chattanooga. I'd really like an '84 Volvo wagon... Bruce Edited May 1, 2015 by Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 IbizaFlame...good luck my man. One thing I tell my customers when they are thinking about a used car is to google it. One thing people do is complain, if the car has some known problems it will be on the internet. Toyota and Honda build some great cars, but there are a few models that have problems. Ford has some good products. I am not a big Nissian fan nor do I like any European vehicles.....might get some crapp on that one....that's just me. You'll see a F250 in my Honda shop before you will see VW in the bay. The used car lot next to my shop will sell no European cars on there lot. 90% of there sales are Honda Toyota. well that's my 2 cents.....best of luck MKP :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 A lot of imports aren't imports anymore... VW plant here in Chattanooga is making great cars. Let's see, there's a huge KIA plant in Alabama, Nissan in Tennessee. I'm sure there are lots more. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 VW plant here in Chattanooga is making great cars. Let's see, there's a huge KIA plant in Alabama, Nissan in Tennessee. I'm sure there are lots more. My dad was an automation engineer that set up stuff for Toyota in Evansville Indiana. In the meantime, Jeep is trying to set up plants in China. It's a crazy mixed up world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Due to the fact that I have an incredible amount of student loans, and have no one who could cosign - I am thinking of going new, as I could for sure get the financing. Enter the problems. ... As it stands I couldn't afford the payment on the new car without some kind of finagling, and the only trade in would be my mom's car. Anyone got any tips... I mean this very sincerely. You are setting yourself up for huge problems. Run from all of that financing. Find a well maintained Toyota or Honda with 75,000 miles and put another 100K on it over the next 5 to 10 years. While eveyone else is buying new cars and showing off, pay off those loans and don't take out any more loans. Then take all of that discipline that you learned and start investing. You will not be a cool kid, but when you are about 40 or 50 you will be really cool, but at that point you should not care about it anymore. PM me if you want. Edited May 1, 2015 by tigerwoodKhorns 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 A lot of imports aren't imports anymore... VW plant here in Chattanooga is making great cars. Let's see, there's a huge KIA plant in Alabama, Nissan in Tennessee. I'm sure there are lots more. Bruce Yes Bruce you are right. The 1st U.S. made Honda was 1985, it was the Accord. Most of those parts are made overseas. At my shop I have a collection of labels where all the Honda parts are made..... USA, China, England, Germany,Philippines, Italy, Mexico, and more. I will still get a part made in Japan....yea MetropolisLakeOutfitters it's a crazy mixed up world... lol lol MKP :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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