billybob Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Three semester hour of a Humanities course hardly makes me a learned art critic but, I liked art before attending. The lack or inability of tools to convey my interpretation, I give credit to those public institutions of supposed higher learning. I am however sincere as Fortunato is about his wine. Now back to Bosch Tondal's Visionimage.jpg Poor unfortunate! Appropriate for the period. Got to love looking at surrealism. A touch of gothic horror for the sake of the soul. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Thelogically, there isn't agreement on this. Genesis 1:29 is debated and there are views on both sides. It's verse 30 that's the issue. "to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so." The whole "creepeth" thing typically meant scavengers and reptiles as far as I can tell. Why would you give plants to these guys if animals were already eating each other? Edited May 5, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peshewah Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Kinda gives me the chills Edited May 5, 2015 by peshewah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) No problem here so far guys, but watch that religious quotes don't generate religious opinion or debate. Great thread, and quoting Hebrew, Greek, Aboriginal American or any mythology is fine...unless you start arguing about it. Carry on... Dave Edited May 5, 2015 by Mallette 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 6, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 6, 2015 Meat eaters didn't exist until after the fall.So you are saying the fall was a good thing?I'm not saying its good or bad, I'm just saying that depicting animals eating each other before the fall is theologically incorrect.Thelogically, there isn't agreement on this. Genesis 1:29 is debated and there are views on both sides. yes there is ... and I've only met one other person that shared my view. There are a lot more than just the two of you on that view. The standard Commentaries I have read seem split. It is a central issue with "Old Earth" vs "Young Earth" theologians. I feel pretty confident that the view at the time of that painting would have been man didn't eat meat before the fall. It also predated the kick ofF of the Reformation by about 15 years, so I don't thinking he is commenting on The Church. I think he is just giving his view of what the orthodoxy was at the time, and details about eating meat were not in his thought process. It was filler. But then again, why would he go to the trouble to paint in the few small instances of it, and if it was intentional commentary, what was he trying to say? "He don't eat meat? He don't eat meat! That's ok, I'll cook a lamb." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I feel pretty confident that the view at the time of that painting would have been man didn't eat meat before the fall. That would be my view. Better not say more, lest I cause another thread to go the way of the padlock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 One of Monte Pythons visions. I always thought they were just being silly, because that is the nature of British humor. Upon further consideration I find that I still think it's silly British humor. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 i always loved the beginning of their show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 It is my opinion the religious discussion is an academic one relating to art, not a passionate one relating to "hey everybody be like me or perish". Those topics can lock threads when they become heated, but when they are intellectual thoughts and facts flowing more as branches to a topic of conversation they are pertinent and remain academic. If you have deleted things that I have not seen, then I might stand corrected. The problem is that I don't know what may or may not have been deleted. I don't think there are any children here who would be overly offended if everything weren't censored or deleted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted May 6, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 6, 2015 No problems as long as you are careful that religious quotes don't generate religious opinion or debate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Yep. Not sure if Christy had seen my cautionary post above. I'll repeat that this entire thread, including the references to religious mythology, is excellent and at a very high level. Some of various faiths may be repelled at the use of the term "mythology," but it IS the correct term. Consider: Abraham Lincoln is certainly a person who has assumed a mythological status. If you don't believe it, step into the Lincoln memorial and gaze upon him while surrounded by hundreds in nearly complete silence. Our art, music, literature, and our very attitudes are a product of thousands of years of gods, goddesses, mythological characters real and imagined, kings, emperors, dictators, and many other things. I say the above in that it is crystal clear to most of us when a discussion of a text from a religious source morphs from focusing on how the composer, artist, or author interpreted it to the poster's opinion of the text itself. Shine any literary source you want on art, but keep it focused on the subject not on yourself or another participant. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) It is my opinion the religious discussion is an academic one relating to art, not a passionate one relating to "hey everybody be like me or perish". Those topics can lock threads when they become heated, but when they are intellectual thoughts and facts flowing more as branches to a topic of conversation they are pertinent and remain academic. I agree, there's a difference. You simply can't truly discuss this painting without talking about religion. There are pretty specific religious references in there. We might as well be debating the meaning of the stuff on the ceiling of the sisteen chapel while trying to keep religion out of the conversation. How is it possible? Edited May 6, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I agree, there's a difference. You simply can't truly discuss this painting without talking about religion. There are pretty specific religious references in there. We might as well be debating the meaning of the stuff on the ceiling of the sisteen chapel while trying to keep religion out of the conversation. How is it possible? It isn't. Don't try. Discuss the relevance of the artists point of view at will. Provide your own point of view ON THE ARTISTS POINT OF VIEW at will. Just leave your own point of view on merits or lack thereof of the religion out of it. It wouldn't even be an issue or concern if we were discussing the paintings of Egyptian Pharaohs presenting Osiris with their war trophies, would it? You could have meaningful discussion without talking about both the Pharaoh's self image as well as how the people perceived both the Pharaoh. the god, and their relationship to each other. No discussion necessary as to whether Osiris exists or not necessary or germane. No difference here except that now we are talking about a still living religion. Treat it as you would the above. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 7, 2015 No problem here so far guys, but watch that religious quotes don't generate religious opinion or debate. Great thread, and quoting Hebrew, Greek, Aboriginal American or any mythology is fine...unless you start arguing about it. Carry on... Dave Good call, thanks for the guidance, I didn't see the need to discuss it further other than what was the view, history at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 7, 2015 Guernica was one of the most significant masterpieces of the 20th century, that even made significance into the 21st by effectively commenting on early events of that new era in a very powerful way: Censorship being the final refuge of the intellectually inferior and cowardly. When ya got it, ya got. That Picasso guy had it in spades. When you can reach ahead 75 years and prick idiots feigning significance, you are a real artist. I would really like to see that painting in person again someday, probably more than any other work. It was still in NYC in the 70s before being returned to Spain per PP's instructions. Massive, as a teenager it took my breath away after turning the corner. After seeing it and learning more about it, his message was perfectly clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS121996 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 ever wonder what the inside of the brain looks like during an acid trip? No, never wondered what it looked like, I only know what I saw Mark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS121996 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 "Let's get it on" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 7, 2015 Love this painting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Love this painting Is that a skull at their feet? Enlarged version found here: I skewed the smaller photo and came up with this: Edited May 7, 2015 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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