Coytee Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 The picture of the bolt, is the bolt that I had to wrestle off. I used the 24" pipe wrench and around 36" cheater bar most of the way. It wasn't until the last couple threads that the impact spun the nut off. The other bolt threads are in better shape, this is the worst of the bunch. you could have re-used 3 bolts -you can make a jig to test the bolts with a block or bracket - if the torque wrench hits 400lbs - the bolt and nut is fine -lock tite is up to you but if it makes you feel safer - why not - I thought about reusing three of them. I then thought for the peace of mind, I'd just swap them all out. My luck I'd cross thread one while reinstalling, have to replace it and prolong the whole process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Have you thought to install the thing at whatever your torque wrench can do, and then drive or haul the hoe to the shop and pay them $25 to torque it to spec? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Nope. I've got no means to haul it. Would probably take 2 hours to drive there. Probably less expensive to take that transportation money and buy the torque wrench. Benefit of living where I live.... I'm surrounded by 250 acres of land which is then surrounded by (guessing) another 300 acres of woods which is then surrounded by a lake on three sides of us. I'm on a big peninsula. Downfall of where I live.... I'm out in the boonies, past all the cows. Definitely a double edged sword. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Nope. I've got no means to haul it. Would probably take 2 hours to drive there. Probably less expensive to take that transportation money and buy the torque wrench. Benefit of living where I live.... I'm surrounded by 250 acres of land which is then surrounded by (guessing) another 300 acres of woods which is then surrounded by a lake on three sides of us. I'm on a big peninsula. Downfall of where I live.... I'm out in the boonies, past all the cows. Definitely a double edged sword. just call your snap-on dealer in the area - have him come by- tell him your issue - he must have the tools to torque these down -my dealer does this for a small contribution - 50$ -and I am also in the neck of the woods - Edited May 10, 2015 by Randyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Any reason I can't just slip my cheater bar over the end of this thing verses buying the (admittedly proper) handle for it? No reason for now. Certainly not to for the install. Especially if you have access to good, thick walled, chromoly tubing. For removal in the future though I wouldn't recommend using anything made of mild steel (ie. any 'ol pipe) because the stresses that build up in reaction handle are pretty fierce. Depending on the load, the planetary can simply bend the pipe at the hilt with the possibility of exploding off the work piece. New handles start at ~$40 from X-4. A foot or two of 4130 CrMo from the steel shop would be half that or even better. If you ended up with the LW-750, I can PM you the dimensions. I don't know if the TD models use the same handles. You can't know how much of the torque you are applying is to over come the locknutFWIW a dial indicator or beam type torque wrench would readily display the fastener running torque. None the less, running torque can always be explored with a clicker type, but it's typically time consuming. Edited May 11, 2015 by Quiet_Hollow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Someone on ebay has a bunch of these for sale. I bought a LW-750. Estimated arrival is sometime this week. Probably means Monday or Tuesday. Most everything sent to us (even UPS "overnight") has a day added to the time. I don't know the type of pipe I have is anything more than 1 1/2" or maybe 2" conduit or perhaps water pipe. It belongs to my neighbor. Never thought about the forces that would be applied to the joint were I to slip it over the end of the multiplier. Guess I need to find out about obtaining a pipe. We've all heard about the gift that keeps on giving. When you are just a home owner, a toy like this is a cost that keeps on costing. Then again.... I'm married so I should be used to it by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 FWIW a dial indicator or beam type torque wrench would readily display the fastener running torque. None the less, running torque can always be explored with a clicker type, but it's typically time consuming Can you explain what you mean by running torque? I'm guessing it means the beam type will show you visually as you close in on the target area whereas the click type does nothing until ostensibly, it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'm guessing it means the beam type will show you visually as you close in on the target area whereas the click type does nothing until ostensibly, it's there. The procedure for the clicker-type requires starting below break-away torque and ramping up the load incrementally until it either clicks, or things begins to turn. This is only applicable for lock nuts or other such fasteners that use prevailing torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Lock nuts function by having a high friction usually by a cone shaped nut or in some cases a plastic insert. As this extra friction takes some effort to overcome this causes the torque applied to the fastener to be less than what you set the wrench to. In order to apply the proper torque the "run on torque" of the nut must be added to the wrench setting. If I needed to tighten something to 100 ft lbs and it took 5 ft lbs to overcome the nut's locking feature I would set the tq wrench to 105 lbs. To find the run on torque a torque wrench is used to tighten the nut onto the bolt until the threads extend thru the nut, observe the indicated tq required to turn the nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 look like the edge of the threads was rounded over The top being deformed or rounded over normally means it's a lock nut. Be sure to see if it's a single use nut or not, as some can not be re-used. They lose their locking ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Got the replacement nuts/bolts in today. Nuts are different than the originals. Picture is of old & new side by side. I'm guessing the round part is the 'lock' washer, anyone know for a fact? When I tried to thread the 'round' part on first, I got into immediate issues. It didn't want to go on easy and felt like I was cross threading them. I flipped nut over and it went on easily....up until it hit that circular part. I'm guessing that is proper installation and the circular section (for lack of better word) has something different with it. Perhaps it's tapered, perhaps the threads are thicker or slightly different pitch... I don't know. I am suddenly glad I replaced them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'm guessing the round part is the 'lock' washer, anyone know for a fact? Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 OK... well, most of the ingredients are in motion. New bolts/nuts are now received Two cylinders are out for repacking, due back this week Alternator is out for rebuilding, due back this week Lower mount plate that holds lower half of cylinders is out for welding new grease cap, due back this week Torque multiplier (without handle) is ordered, due this week What does this mean? It means, hopefully this weekend, I can put it back together and I've spent about $2,000. It means that I can then start it....move it out of the field to go park it for any number of weeks until it's needed again. Probably next weekend to move mulch & raise it to the top side of the rock retaining wall. It's amazing to me how I'm cringing at the cost of "just" repairing the two swing cylinders yet.... have no plans to get rid of the machine. It's surprising how much it gets used. Every home owner should have a toy like this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Working at Amtrak, It was a requirement to replace all hardware that was torqued like these, there reasoning was once torqued to ? the metal would stress and therefore loose strength upon removal, If you reinstalled the same hardware it was theoretically a weaker bolt, and in a shear position that would be a bad idea. so buying new bolts = a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Update and new question. 1. Cylinders are due back tomorrow (about $950) 2. Bought a torque multiplier (thanks! I'm excited to try it) 3. Bought the bar for the multiplier 4. Bought a second 1 1/2" socket to hold the bolt 5. Picked up the bottom mounting plate today (for the cylinders) after getting a new grease cap welded on New question...electrical in nature (alternator) Picked it up today, he said it's working fine (then why the heck doesn't it ever charge my battery!!) It has a 3-prong plug that mates to it. On the alternator itself there are some pins. Three of them together are B+ B+ D+ They mate to the plug. He told me the two B's go to the batterry and D goes to he ignition. It has another tab and it's just "+" he said it was for tach but, this machine uses a mechanical tach. Which of these is the source that powers the lights on the machine? Would they be powered by the battery and the B+ is supplying the power or, would they be more directly wired to the "+" tab? I don't recall if I even have a lead for the "+" tab. I've been scraping the silly tabs to get 28 years of accumulated corrosion off of them to make sure they're getting good contact. What I don't get is, why (when I lift the negative on the battery), do my lights die? (might simply be wired differently than an auto which is why I asked above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Typical alternators charge the battery when a load causes the voltage to drop. The alternator hooks up to the positive battery terminal. All the vehicles harnesses normally get their power from the battery positive terminal. The positive terminal will have a large wire going to the starter, a smaller wire going to the alternator and a wire (or wires) going to the fuse box to supply power to your accessories and lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Put a volt gauge on the battery and read the voltage. Start the vehicle, the voltage should go up once the engine is running. Be sure your battery ground is good at the battery and where the cable hooks to the engine block and chassis. Nothing happens without a good ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Is there a wire that goes to the single plug on the right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Is there a wire that goes to the single plug on the right? Nailed it. Took unit out there and looked around. Yes, there is a wire with a female spade on it that was folded back around one of the things in there. No memory if I did it or not. If I did it.....it was likely 8-10 years ago. I'll bet that is the hot wire that powers the lights when the battery is disconnected. I have resorted to stop working when it gets dark rather than use the lights (and ostensibly, kill my battery that much faster) Machine has an electro-mechanical transmission so no battery power means no engagement of tranny and no movement. I won't know for sure until I get the cylinders back together (don't want to get the hydraulic pump moving with two open hoses!, I've seen the pressure & flow this is capable of when I once had a hose burst) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Picked it up today, he said it's working fine (then why the heck doesn't it ever charge my battery!!) Shouldn't be too hard to figure out. If he checked it and said it's charging then it probably has an internal voltage regulator, so he checked that too. Unplug the 3 wire plug. Test all with a test light, not a volt meter. Both the B's should light up your test light brightly. The D should be dead. Turn the key on and the D should be bright as well. If your test light is dim or doesn't illuminate as I've indicated, you have a wire or connector issue. Let me know what you find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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