Bluesteel Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 Not shocked electronically, but shocked by the size. I looked inside my 1000W peak Chorus II's and found disappointingly tiny little wires. And to think, I kind of felt I was skimping by running 12 gauge speaker wire. I guess its supposed to simulate a direct connection to the amp, but what an eye-opener! And what a "Monster" rip-off! At least it was a generic monster, but I still feel like an idiot. I could make a fortune betting against people's "golden-ears" on what they can and can't hear with some double-blind tests. You know the kind, where neither the listener nor the test operator knows what they're really listening to, and an observer scores the results. If they could tell the difference significantly above random guessing, I'll pay them. If not, they pay me. How does five to one odds sound? Before you take me up on that, you'd better have a gander at those tiny little wires! Believe what you want, listen to the "Paul-Hardly" style marketing, read all those glowing buzz-word reviews about "imaging, sound-stage, etc." in the same magazines that sell 4-color advertisement space, and backup your objective research with some real-life testimonials at we'reallreallynotsufferingfrombuyer'sremorse.com. Then go get yourself some $300+ solid silver interconnects and $400+ hand-weaved speaker cables the size of a garden hose. Of course that stuff sounds better. And the more you keep telling yourself that, the more you'll believe it too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 i agree totally. may be a slight advantage on some for build quality & features like double shielding. but as far as sound quality, i've read of Tom Nousaine challenging some of those premium wire houses on doing the comparisons at their own facilities & getting continuously put off by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 Audio magazines? Conflict of interest? It can not be true! Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 I've got 3 of those hand-woven, garden hose, CAT-5 speaker wires. I did them myself and probably have no more than $50 in them, plus sore fingers and a wife that thinks in certifiable! They improved the detail or clarity on my KLF-C7 a little and did nothing for my La Scalas. My theory is the relative reduction in DCR vs speaker impedance is at work. The La Scalas are 32+ ohms in the midrange, where differences are easy to hear; 1 ohm less in the cable in not much overall change. If the -C7 has a typical impedance curve, 1 ohm less in the cable vs. 7 or 8 in the midrange is a lot of relative change. I have always been a doubting Thomas and continue to be one, but I have some fairly expensive Vampire Wire interconnects because I heard the difference and I liked it. It could be nothing more than better mating of the preamp to the power amp, but it works for me. I don't believe there is anything but $$$ mojo in the truely high-end. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 There is an article in this month's Audio Express. It is the successor to Glass Audio, Audio Amateur, and SpeakerBuilder. RIP. It is about the lack of hard evidence that there is much to be gained over heavy zip cord. Nelson Pass wrote up a similar article in SpearkerBuilder decades ago. My read on both articles is that the technically trained authors wanted to find a technical basis for a claim of superiority of super duper wire over heavy zip cord in real world frequency and impedance settings. They did not. In both cases the author waffled at the end and kinda mumbled about the possibility that if you hear something different, maybe that is okay. My read is that it is like little green men. There is not a respectable scientist who would not like to find evidence of LGM. SETI works on it, without results. No one can honestly come up with the type of evidence that would hold sway in a peer review article. My hat is off to folk who weave CAT-5. At least they have blood sweat tears and toil in the project. The hucksters selling high end wires for big bucks, I think they have an obligation to come forward with double blind tests. I don't get upset by the wiring inside of speaker cabinets. It is a real eye opener to take apart a driver and find the voice coils are make up of really, really, really, small wire =8^o. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyp Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Ditto, Gil. But SETI has the coolest screen saver I've ever seen! ------------------ John Packard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 I run the "SETI at home" software too. It is nice to think that we're all making a contribution to research. Sorry I bent everyone's ear about wire. I know there are strong opinions out there. I really would like to see a technical basis for reported improvements. There just don't seem to be any. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Hey again, Little wires on the voice-coil make perfect sense, keeping inertia low. And I can see that using small zip cord for speaker wire is not wise, but there is a radical diminishing return curve once you get past 14 or 16 gauge speaker wire, unless you're going very far. It's just that it's not possible to be objective once you've laid down a big wad of cash for the equivalent of running a 20" high-pressure gas pipeline to supply the 1/2" lines servicing your house. Good grief, I have a 25 hp CNC Lathe out in the shop that will pull a full 100 amps, with a supply line that's 60 feet from the breaker-box, and it's not using some of the wire I've seen advertised as speaker cable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Cabling definitely makes a difference. I also have the braided Cat 5 cables and like the ability of them to cut the sibilance so much, I made them for the tweeter and network on my home builts. What some people will say with some cables is that it is adding detail. To me, it could sound harsher to me. To each his own but most cabling over a couple hundred bucks is crazy. I thought the $150 I spent on an interconnect was crazy but it tamed what I wanted without having to go out and do another real investment in the frontend or amplification. I wouldn't worry too much about the 16 guage in the speakers since the runs are so short anyway but hey, that's why so many of us tweak. We think we can hear the difference. Peter Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oosting Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 "What some people will say with some cables is that it is adding detail. To me, it could sound harsher to me. ... We think we can hear the difference." 'Nuf said. Ed PS. They are Little Gray Men, not Little Green Men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 I promise never to mention this speaker cable issue again, this month. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns02 Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 How about those people who claim more detail from a power cord! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 Years ago in my college days had a friend who had a 65 Ford Fairlane with mag wheels and a cherry bomb exhaust. He thought it was a hot rod. One day in my driveway I noticed him standing in front of it intensely bending from side to side. Then he went to the front right tire and let some air out. Looked at it again, went to the front left and let air out. I asked him what the heck he was doing and he told me with a straight face he was "leveling the frame to make it more aerodynamic so it would go even faster". I rolled on the driveway laughing at him, but now that I think about it...hmmmm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 here's that Nousaine episode (i hope): www.vxm.com/21R.64.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted April 2, 2001 Author Share Posted April 2, 2001 Thanks Boa, Perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docmenace Posted April 4, 2001 Share Posted April 4, 2001 I built the SETI lot's of times in Civilization, and I did it without Monster cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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