Hands on Comparison: RSW-15 vs. P312W

[Guest Steven1963]

My main reason for writing this is because I could not find a review for the P312W when I was considering getting it. I thought there should be something out there for someone to refer to prior to investing such a large amount of money. So here is my humble contribution. I hope it helps someone. Also, since I have the RSW-15 I thought it would be beneficial to give someone who has perhaps heard that sub a baseline against Klipsch’s current best offering.

 

 

These are arguably the best two consumer subwoofers Klipsch has made in the last 15 years. I am privileged to own both of them. But before having both I often wondered which one was the better performer in relation to cost? Would someone who spent $800 on a used RSW-15 be significantly disadvantaged or would spending $4,000 on a brand new P312w be worth it? No doubt, these subs are in a different classes, one being 12” and the other being 15”. But, I think that since the technology built into the larger sub is over a decade old and the technology in the 12” sub is ‘newer’ the comparison might be more balanced.  And I will try to remember that during my comparison.

 

 

This is strictly a 2.1 channel setup comparison.  

 

 

Mechanically, at first glance the most obvious differences between these subs is the driver size. The P312W sports an electronic control panel on the top front edge. It allows total control over the sub either through the use of these touch controls or the remote control. Volume, crossover, presets (music, HT, user), slope, phase (0-180 in single degree increments), etc. The lights are blue and intensity is adjustable. Frankly, when I first saw it I found the color un-appealing. It’s growing on me but I don’t think I’ll ever be enamored with it. The RSW-15 has no such panel and access to most of these controls (it does not have presets) is primarily on the back via switches and knobs. Not very ergonomic especially when you consider placement close to a wall and you are trying to get behind it to make adjustments. No fancy remote to make changes from the comfort of your lounger. The volume control is handy (in an old-fashioned sort of way) in that it is located on the upper right side of the box. You still have to get out of your lounger to adjust it (first-world problems!).

 

Visually, the differences are striking. The RSW-15 is essentially a box with a nice finish and two  copper colored woofers (one active and one passive) on either end – visually appealing in its own way, if not a bit plain. The finish is beautiful. Mine is the Cherry. Black is also offered. The grille is large and flimsily. The pins that hold it onto the subwoofer are extremely long and spindly. They break easily and finding a used one with all the pins is probably rare. Really a shame and the engineers should have been embarrassed.

 

The slightly smaller-in-stature P312W sports a sort of aircraft fuselage design with a remarkable finish (it comes in Merlot, Espresso, or Natural) but IMO a rather boring woofer – the color is sort of gray and reflects light to an off-white wavelength. I look at it and keep thinking ‘why not copper?’ I remember being struck on how small the driver looked even for 12 inches. I think this affect is because the driver itself is not flush with the front surface of the sub and is actually recessed 1.5 inches. If not for the design of the driver’s bezel I’d probably be fine leaving the grille on it. Speaking of which, the grille is light-years ahead in design compared to the RSW-15’s. It’s more rigid because it is a solid piece of plastic with only the center opened for the driver, unlike the RSW-15’s which is a completely hollow-diamond design. It fits very snugly around the bezel of the control panel at the top. So much so that I felt I should slip it up from the beneath and then into place to push in the much shorter and less likely to break pins into their perfectly fitted holes. Magnets are my personal preference.

 

There are 3 drivers on the P312W in a triangular configuration: an active driver on the front and a passive on either side of the ‘fuselage.’ They also have their own grilles, which presents a grille management problem if you want them all three removed to display the drivers. Where does one put 3 grilles, much less one? However, Klipsch does not recommend removing the passive grilles and doesn’t describe in the manual how to remove them, only that if they are off they should be reinstalled. I found that interesting.

 

Rear connections are also light-years different on the two models. The RSW-15 has inputs via RCA connections. That’s it! The P312W has options: RCA, USB, MIC (included, to calibrate the sub to your room, completely automated), and XLR jacks. I would have liked to have seen optical added to the list, if it’s possible? One detail that deserves mentioning is that the RSW-15 has a small light on the front to let you know it’s on. The P312W has no such indicator. They both have an auto on feature.

 

Probably of no value, but I found it curious that the power cable for the P312W is two-pronged. No ground. The RSW-15 is three-pronged. I’m not an electrician so maybe someone with a background could explain the difference.

 

The P312W is the first subwoofer I have purchased that came with a pair of white cotton gloves and a ‘gown’ with a draw string made of the same white cotton to clothe the sub in for shipment. As mentioned, a fully functioning remote control, a mic in a (faux?) leather pouch with a stand and an ample length cable are also included. I didn’t buy my RSW-15 new so I can’t comment on what was in the box.

 

Before we get to the ‘meat’ of this review, a few P312W specifics:

 

Calibrating the P312W for room acoustics is pretty straight forward. Simply hook up the microphone and place it, find the menu for running the test on the sub and begin. The sub will run tones from lowest to highest and then it’s done. You can then save the slope in any of the presets or user defined settings provided.

The P312W remote is a bit larger than a credit card and about ¼” thick. Any function on the subs control panel can be achieved with the remote. It is convenient for making changes but I do not like that there is no visual feedback to know whether the adjustments you are making are actually being received by the sub. For instance, if you want to change the volume you will hear this difference given enough change. But for even 3 db changes I’m not sure anybody can hear that, so without any visual feedback from the remote the only way to confirm the change is to walk up to the sub and watch the display. On other adjustments, such as making a 5hz adjustment to the crossover, good luck verifying that at your couch, so I found myself walking over and using the remote right in front of the sub so I could see the display. That kind of defeats the purpose of the remote. Also, because of the small and lightweight size of the remote it felt a little clumsy in my hand. My hands are small. I imagine anybody with larger hands would have difficulty using it.

 

There are 3 settings to help define your subs characteristics: Depth, Flat, and Punch. According to the manual, this is what they do:

Depth: boosts the 30hz range. Punch: emphasizes the 55hz region. Flat: defeats those two settings. I am using Depth for this review.

 

Ideal placement for this sub as described in the manual is for it to be put into a corner pointed at the listener. This is so the passive drivers each have a wall to work with and to enhance the bass. This is problematic IF you want your sub on the front wall with your main speakers simply because most people are going to use those corners for those main speakers. It is especially problematic if you are using the sub in a 2.1 system with Klipschorns, such as my setup.

 

 

Okay! Let’s move onto the main event! How do the RSW-15 and the P312W compare in what they have been designed to do? (DISCLAIMER: I do not have measuring equipment, nor do I consider myself an ‘audiophile’. I’m only going on how they sound and how they feel TO ME).

 

Equipment:

 

 

For full disclosure, each sub is being fed lossless files from GooglePlay through a Sonos with a vintage DBX BX3 Mii and a DBX CX3 Mii pre-amp powering the Klipschorns. I also run a DBX 14/10 Equalizer/Analyzer.

 

Room characteristics:

 

I spent a lot of time finding where the crossover point on these subs felt most comfortable with the Klipschorns: 45hz. I am using the EQ to even out room acoustics TO SUIT MY EAR. The subs are sitting in a room that is 16 feet wide and about 35 feet long with 9 foot ceilings with carpeting for the first 20 feet from all speakers. A fairly good sized space for two enclosed subs – an especially tall order for the P312W since it is 12 inches. For all songs I am listening at my position at about 18 feet from the speakers. Readings here are averaging 80db.

 

Songs chosen for the comparison are: Michael Jackson’s Billie Jean; Oleta Adams’ Get Here; and Lloyd Banks’ Beamer, Benze, or Bentley. 

 

 

Why Billie Jean? The entry notes are some of the most memorable base notes ever written (imo) and everyone instantly knows their melody.

 

Why Get Here? Deep, hard hitting base with a fantastic attack, yet clear and precise accompaniments with no distractions – other than Oleta’s fabulous voice. It’s easy to focus on the refined qualities of a bass passage.

 

Why Beamer, Benze, or Bentley? If you want to find out what your sub can do this is the song that will tell you. I’m no fan, but I can’t deny the bass. (Hey, this isn’t a popularity contest of music, I want to know what these subs can do!)

 

All songs were listened to multiple times with each sub.

 

P312W:  Using the digital display, the sub is set to 0db (Reference) for all three songs.

 

Billie Jean: The bass notes in this piece run one after another. This can give the impression that the sub is loose, but I have to remember it is the nature of the song.  Low notes rumble and I could barely feel it in my posterior sitting on the couch some 18 feet away.  The main rhythm hits around the 50-60hz mark – above the crossover, and I found myself wanting to give the sub more of the duty as compared to the Klipschorns – being that the subs presentation was confident and very musical. I did not get the impression that the sub was working hard at all.

 

 

Get Here: Tight. Very tight. The fast attacks of this song are no problem for this sub to reproduce. Clarity and definition are amazing. Bass notes hit, and then they are gone they do not linger. There are parts of the song where a snare will hit exactly when the deepest bass notes are plucked and it actually startled me a couple times because of the quick attack – these, I think, are about 30hz and lower. I was impressed that as fast a snare drum dissipates this sub does that same thing with bass notes.

 

 

Beamer, Benze, or Bentley: Holy cow. I actually got chills. This sub LOVED this and so did I. The main frequencies in play here are around 45hz and lower. My EQ showed this area to be pegged at +12db very frequently, combined with the sub set at reference. About 80db at my position.  Rock solid. It was the kind of bass where your ears start to feel like they are plugged: room filling and overpowering. I turned it up just to see…90db…my whole body was vibrating and it was becoming uncomfortable for both me and the sub, which started to complain to me by getting a bit loose and sloppy. For 12 inches, very nice.

 

RSW-15 has no digital readout to determine level so I had to ‘ballpark’ it to a level that ‘sounded’ similar to the P312W. This ended up being about 1/3^rd the rotation of the level knob from lowest to highest. To help illustrate the differences, picture a horizontal line 6 inches long (zero being no level and 6 being max level). The R312W would hit at about the 4.5” – 5” mark, the RSW-15 would be down around the 2” mark.

 

Billie Jean: Deep, guttural base. It almost sounded ½ an octave lower to me than the P312W (because it's coming off the wall?). More raw sounding but at the cost of losing some finesse. I know I’ve heard this sub described as musical, but the Palladium seemed more so. Boomy? Yes compared to the Palladium, if just a little. Yes, it was definitely deeper but perhaps not as defined and more muddled. I felt this sub in my feet way more than the Palladium at the same level.

 

Get Here: I love this sub. It is having no problem filling this room with deep, powerful, tight bass. It does seem a bit more muddled and somehow just not as well matched musically with the Klipschorns. It’s more ‘in your face’ whereas the Palladium was doing its job of accompanying the Klipschorns. Definition seemed lacking. Again it sounds deeper and I am feeling more action at my feet than the Palladium was sending to me.

 

 

Beamer, Benze, or Bentley: If the P312W was a 15” sub I would want it to perform like RSW-15 performs. As on the Palladium, I started out at around 80db and I was feeling this sub at my feet. It wasn’t even working hard so I went to 90db, which is where the Palladium started to complain. This one? It laughed at me while it gave my rear a nice massage on the couch. I didn’t even keep it at this level for more than a few seconds because I knew my neighbors were getting some of it.  But, I didn’t get that same plugged ear feeling. Not as low as the Palladium? doubtful. Harmonics from the Palladium and not so much from the RSW-15? Perhaps. More fun? Hell yes. The RSW-15 had plenty of room to go harder. Much harder.

 

 

Final thoughts:

 

 

Looking back this just was not a fair comparison. These are two different classes of subwoofer: 12 inch and 15 inch; one shoots out into the room, the other reflects off of a wall. Their only similarities seem to be that they are both made by Klipsch, both employ passive radiators, and both are enclosed. The P312W is a beautiful subwoofer with the finest craftsmanship you could ask for. In addition to looks, what the Palladium also has over the RSW-15 is finesse and style. It does the job a subwoofer should do without waving a big banner saying “look at me!” Which is sort of baffling, because you want to look at it, it is so damn good looking. I found it to be more musical and overall very smooth. It’s the cool cat thumping out solid bass confidently while the RSW-15 is the bull in a china shop wanting to knock all your dishes off the shelves.

 

 

For 2 channel audio and if it was 2002 and I had the opportunity to buy an RSW-15 for $1800 or get a P312W for $3000 (lowered for inflation) which would I buy?  Hands down, no doubt about it, the RSW-15. Today a used RSW-15 can be had for around $800 depending on condition. A used P312W…well A LOT more than that. I can’t help but think that if they re-released the RSW-15 today in the same box with the same amenities it would be priced at about $3,000 - a full $1,000 less than the P312W.  Still a better $ value.

 

 

But I suppose you are paying that premium for this reason: The P312W was released as part of the Palladium package and you wouldn’t match the RSW-15 with the P39F speakers. You just wouldn’t. It was made to compliment the Palladium mains - period. And after listening to it I can see how it would fit perfectly into that package. And if you’ve got the cash for P39F’s then you aren’t going to worry about what the matching sub costs. I don’t think Klipsch was trying to create a sub that bested the RSW-15, they were making a sub that best fit with their flagship HT speakers. And that’s it in a nutshell.

 

When I got the Palladium I immediately moved the RSW-15 upstairs for HT duty – no side by side necessary. For the comparison I brought the RSW-15 back downstairs, and back downstairs is where it is going to stay. The P312W will go upstairs for HT duty with the Heresy III’s. This configuration makes more sense for my setup.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Steven1963

[Scrappydue]

The more musical finesse sub goes HT duty and the high output "sloppy" sub stays in 2.1? Not sure I follow that logic. Either way I througly enjoyed reading the comparison. I feel the same way about the palladium. Fantastic subwoofer. Would I pay full retail? No. Half? Yeah I think so if I was going full palladium. It did what it was supposed to do. Had I not needed to recoupe a little from the deal I would have gladly kept it. Maybe down the line I will grab another. My wife sure liked the looks of it better than the black cylinder that took its place.

[willland]

Thanks a ton for the very comprehensive reviews/comparison of these wonderful Klipsch subs.

 

Just out of curiosity, did you place each sub in the same corner of your room?  Same approximate distance from corner?

 

I ask because of the different configurations with the P-312W active driver shooting into the room and the RSW15's active driver shooting toward a wall/corner.

 

 

 

The more musical finesse sub goes HT duty and the high output "sloppy" sub stays in 2.1?

 

That one confused me a bit.  I am sure neither are really "sloppy" like neither a Ferrari or Lamborghini are slow. 

 

Bill

Edited May 17, 2015 by willland

[Tremors]

Very well written review, thanks for the info. I've never heard the Palladium sub but I do really enjoy its appearance.

[Guest Steven1963]

The more musical finesse sub goes HT duty and the high output "sloppy" sub stays in 2.1? Not sure I follow that logic. Either way I througly enjoyed reading the comparison. I feel the same way about the palladium. Fantastic subwoofer. Would I pay full retail? No. Half? Yeah I think so if I was going full palladium. It did what it was supposed to do. Had I not needed to recoupe a little from the deal I would have gladly kept it. Maybe down the line I will grab another. My wife sure liked the looks of it better than the black cylinder that took its place.

 

I do way more 2 channel listening than HT watching so I wanted the more bang-for-my-buck sub where it would get the most use. Also, the RSW-15 is no slouch with being musical and had I never put it up against the P312W I wouldn't have know it was lacking in that department. Simply, it wasn't 'sloppy' enough to make me keep it in the backseat.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Steven1963

[Guest Steven1963]

Thanks a ton for the very comprehensive reviews/comparison of these wonderful Klipsch subs.

 

Just out of curiosity, did you place each sub in the same corner of your room?  Same approximate distance from corner?

 

I ask because of the different configurations with the P-312W active driver shooting into the room and the RSW15's active driver shooting toward a wall/corner.

 

 

 

The more musical finesse sub goes HT duty and the high output "sloppy" sub stays in 2.1?

 

That one confused me a bit.  I am sure neither are really "sloppy" like neither a Ferrari or Lamborghini are slow. 

 

Bill

 

Exactly.

[Guest Steven1963]

Just out of curiosity, did you place each sub in the same corner of your room?  Same approximate distance from corner?

 

Yes, both subs were in the exact same positions.

[Rowan611]

Nice comparison. Did you buy the P312W new? Just wondering, because you can get A LOT more sub for your money with ID. For $4000 a Sub M or Captivator would be superior, even a PSA T-18, or a Reaction Audio PS - 218x.

[Guest Steven1963]

I bought it practically new from Scrappydue. The price was so good it was impossible to pass up. I'm glad I did it. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by Steven1963

[derrickdj1]

Nice review Steven.  The Palladium sub was not made to knock down doors as the JTR, PSA, or RA.  Fdelity is the name of the game for the Palladium series and simplicity.  Many people used the RSW 15 for music and there is a large fan club for that sub.  As you stated, they were in the same location but, the RSW did not have the benefit of some EQ.  The subs were not level matched and due to their design, that may account for some of the observed differences.

 

I use my subs for music mainly also, Steven and find really dialing them in with the room and speakers is the key to great bass.  I am not a fan of terms like musical subs vs HT subs or sealed are better than ported for music.  Most of these things are related to setup IMHO.  You have two great subs, enjoy and let the music play.  If I owned a piece of a Palladium system, I would be hunting for the rest of the pieces.  The Palladium speakers are beautiful and the appearance adds to to listening experience.

Edited May 17, 2015 by derrickdj1

[Zen Traveler]

Does anyone know if Klipsch still makes the preamp/amp for the RSW-15?

[mungkiman]

I bought it practically new from Scrappydue. The price was so good it was impossible to pass up. I'm glad I did it. 

 

Same sub as for sale on CL?

[mungkiman]

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/5029277803.html

[mustang guy]

Excellent write up Stephen. I feel like I have a good understanding of both subs now. I tend to agree that the remote is kinda silly if you don't have any feedback. It is better than getting up and adjusting manually then sitting down and trying to remember if it sounds better, but a readout would be the way to go. IMO, at that price, the remote should have a small LED display.

[Guest Steven1963]

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/5029277803.html

 

Yes, that's mine. I am judging interest here in the Portland area. Not sure if I will part with it if anyone nibbles, but we'll see. Now if somebody doesn't balk at that price and wants to pay it, yeah I think I'd let it go.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Steven1963

[mungkiman]

Beautiful. GLWS.

[Scrappydue]

Jeeze making some money off of me huh. Good to know 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Scrappydue

[K5SS]

I know the mighty RSW-15 has reached ledgendary status around these parts but I have owned 2 modern subwoofers that flat out beat it in every possible catagory for roughly half the MSRP.

Don't get me wrong, the RSW-15 is a monster, just that the current sub wars have really benefited us audio gear heads.

[Guest Steven1963]

Jeeze making some money off of me huh. Good to know 

 

It's CL. Nobody there deserves that sub at the price you sold it to me for. If someone here on the forums wants to pay me what I paid you, no problem and no profit  .

[Scrappydue]

Jeeze making some money off of me huh. Good to know

It's CL. Nobody there deserves that sub at the price you sold it to me for. If someone here on the forums wants to pay me what I paid you, no problem and no profit .

awe I was just giving you a hard time. And there might be some one out there who deserves it for that. I've met some really good guys on craigslist