jimjimbo Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Would like to get the opinion of those here as to whether it would be worthwhile to experiment installing a pair of Altec 416-8C woofers in either a pair of Cornwalls or La Scalas, or Belle's.... Cornwall's have either B's or B2 crossovers, and the LS and Belle's have AA's. All have been re-capped. What if any mods would need to be done on the crossovers. The Altec's are 8 ohm, and here are the specs: http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/proloudspeakers/lfloudspeakers/416-8C-01.jpg http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/proloudspeakers/lfloudspeakers/416-8C-02.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Would like to get the opinion of those here as to whether it would be worthwhile to experiment installing a pair of Altec 416-8C woofers in either a pair of Cornwalls or La Scalas, or Belle's... Heck yeah it would be worth it for you to experiment! I think that's the fun of vintage stuff, you can do it yourself. You don't need no stinkin' crossover changes. I say plug the woofs into the speakers you mentioned in alphabetical order, and go for it! And remember, we like pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you want to see the difference, search for the Altec N501 crossover used with the 416-8C. The schematic will quickly show you the differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Would like to get the opinion of those here as to whether it would be worthwhile to experiment installing a pair of Altec 416-8C woofers in either a pair of Cornwalls or La Scalas, or Belle's... Heck yeah it would be worth it for you to experiment! I think that's the fun of vintage stuff, you can do it yourself. You don't need no stinkin' crossover changes. I say plug the woofs into the speakers you mentioned in alphabetical order, and go for it! And remember, we like pictures. My friend, you are a hoot! Thing is, I don't want to have to take any photos of a smoking amp or toasted capacitors!! Think I might wait to get a few more responses before I start runnin' wires..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I want to see how he is going to fit a 16" woofer in any Klipsch cabinet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) I want to see how he is going to fit a 16" woofer in any Klipsch cabinet. the 416-8C should fit in a Cornwall 1 as it is not front mounted - the mounting hole diameter is 14 1/8 inches - Edited May 19, 2015 by Randyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It would be a shame to go to the trouble of pulling the bottom off of some La Scalas and find they won't fit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Well see, I'm learning something every minute.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Well see, I'm learning something every minute.... hi Jim - does a baffle opening diameter of 14 1/8 " fit Edited May 19, 2015 by Randyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It is my understanding that the CW box is optimum for the K-33 and is one of the Butterworth alignments. The Altec has a lower fs and lower Qts. That will probably require a different box size and port. It is not like the Altec is better for the CW box. PWK and Roy Delgato knew how to optimize the box and driver. People here should be able to suggest a box calculation program you can fool with and also give you the specs on the CW box. You should use this info to see how much you have to mod the box to get good performance. I suspect it is more than you want to do. But have fun tinkering. I'm saying, just do it with knowledge and understanding WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It is my understanding that the CW box is optimum for the K-33 and is one of the Butterworth alignments. The Altec has a lower fs and lower Qts. That will probably require a different box size and port. It is not like the Altec is better for the CW box. PWK and Roy Delgato knew how to optimize the box and driver. People here should be able to suggest a box calculation program you can fool with and also give you the specs on the CW box. You should use this info to see how much you have to mod the box to get good performance. I suspect it is more than you want to do. But have fun tinkering. I'm saying, just do it with knowledge and understanding WMcD the fact that it is a 8ohms woofer vs the K33 4 ohms -how foes that aspect play out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 That voice coil resistance is not really telling very much that we have to know. The process designing the best box for the driver is rather complicated but these days is simplified by the use of Thiele/Small parameters which describe aspects of the driver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small What is not shown in the article is how these parameters of the drivers tell us what size box and what size port we should use in a vented box, like the CW. The major "small signal" parameters for the driver are Fs (resonance freq), Qts (related to motor strength), and Vab (how springy is the suspension). Generally, we are talking about a box and vent which resonates at a specific frequency and with its own "Q" which is how sharply it is tuned. But when things are working, it takes the sound off the back of the speaker, and it goes through the vent, and increases the bass response. But you have to know what you're doing. Computer programs help. PWK worked this out for the CW to optimize it before the works of Thiele and Small were well known. OTOH, I've read that other manufacturers back then were a bit in the dark, this is from the very brilliant Don Keele. They knew how to build speakers, and how to build boxes and vents. Some combinations worked better than others -- but why was not well understood. There is sometimes a notion that I've got a box and a driver, and I see a driver which seems bigger or better or the manufacturer promises better bass, or it is more pretty -- somethings like that. However, it is not that simple. Also, I see the Altec is larger and you'll have to relocate the bolts holding the driver in place. No small issue. WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 That voice coil resistance is not really telling very much that we have to know. The process designing the best box for the driver is rather complicated but these days is simplified by the use of Thiele/Small parameters which describe aspects of the driver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small What is not shown in the article is how these parameters of the drivers tell us what size box and what size port we should use in a vented box, like the CW. The major "small signal" parameters for the driver are Fs (resonance freq), Qts (related to motor strength), and Vab (how springy is the suspension). Generally, we are talking about a box and vent which resonates at a specific frequency and with its own "Q" which is how sharply it is tuned. But when things are working, it takes the sound off the back of the speaker, and it goes through the vent, and increases the bass response. But you have to know what you're doing. Computer programs help. PWK worked this out for the CW to optimize it before the works of Thiele and Small were well known. OTOH, I've read that other manufacturers back then were a bit in the dark, this is from the very brilliant Don Keele. They knew how to build speakers, and how to build boxes and vents. Some combinations worked better than others -- but why was not well understood. There is sometimes a notion that I've got a box and a driver, and I see a driver which seems bigger or better or the manufacturer promises better bass, or it is more pretty -- somethings like that. However, it is not that simple. Also, I see the Altec is larger and you'll have to relocate the bolts holding the driver in place. No small issue. WMcD the OP said EXPERIMENT - sort of like a test or curiosity - the problem is while it will fit in a CW1 baffle -it wont in a CW2 unless you make the opening bigger - you cant use the same screw holes or the crossovers either - -a Cornscala seems to be the best choice iN A 2 WAY SETUP with the ALTEC crossover IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 If only we could have had Jason weigh in on this thread as he is very current with ALTEC gear - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Altecs are some quality equipment. Still can't believe I got $2700 out of my 604's. Edited May 19, 2015 by cradeldorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think that WMcD has given you a big hint. If I can paraphrase, you need to do some calculations before you do some experimentation. My own perspective is that the woofers in the Cornwall are not the system's weak link. I would think a better strategy is to tackle the midrange. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I have a pair of Altec VOTT cabinets they'd be perfect for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think you should experiment and have fun. But it seems to me that putting the Altec in a CW box is like experimenting putting a size 12 foot into a size 10 shoe. There are better ways to experiment. WMcD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I have a pair of Altec VOTT cabinets they'd be perfect for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Well, first of all, thanks to all of you for your input, advice and opinions. These had been given to me by a good friend, who has more stuff hanging around than I do.....so he told me a while back to experiment with them....I was just throwing out the ideas of the CW's, etc. to see what you all thought, and I've learned a lot. So Michael.....I just may take you up on that. Although, I think I'm gonna need a bigger boat....Could you PM me with the details on the VOTT's, and perhaps point me to some pics you may have already posted? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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