prerich Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I am really trying to get this computer based storage and streaming thing ip to snuff, yet no matter what I try I can not get the sound quality anywhere near the standard disc based playback. Even though the disc based playback is running at 44k and the computer based playback of an ape file is running at 192k, the disc is way ahead in dimension, separation and liveliness. it's not that the ape file is bad sounding, as a matter of fact it is extremely smooth and grain free, but it still lacks dimension and separation. those computer files sound very flat... very well resolved and crystal clear... but flat. I bought a brand new computer and run full jriver and ape files ripped from original source CD's or high res download. using the same DAC for both conversions unless jriver is doing something to the file before routing out of the usb port to the wyred dac. anyone have any ideas or is that what we give up for the sake of convenience? I could live with the jriver usb wyred solution if I had never experienced the oppo coax wyred playback. but I know the difference. How are you hooked up via your JRiver solution? Could it be the USB drivers of the Wyred DAC? What's the model of your DAC? I actually have 2 dedicated zones in my playback. I've added a receiver back into the system - just to test some things and I decided to keep it there for now (basically a big volume control - that's it. However it did afford me the opportunity to compare a few things. I set up a zone coming out of my PC and it uses the DAC in the receiver, I also set up a zone that uses the DAC in my modified Essence ST. I compared the two and the Essence destroys the receivers dacs for music playback. So what I did is to use the Essence for music playback (analog out of the essence to the CD input of the receiver). I use HDMI out of the PC as a zone for movies and TV. None of my blu-ray players can compete with my Essence ST's sound (did that experiment too). I have completely abandoned Audyssey as well (I use my own measurements and JRiver PEQ and MathAudio). Give me some specifics of your set up and I'll see if I can help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) using jRiver... it's: Microsoft Surface Pro>USB>Wyred DAC2SE>digital COAX>Pioneer pre outs>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls For Disc playback... it's: Oppo93>digital COAX>Wyred DAC2SE>digital COAX>Pioneer pre outs>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls or Oppo93>HDMI>Pioneer DAC>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls all three work fairly well... but the top dog is clear. (Oppo93>digital COAX>Wyred DAC2SE>digital COAX>Pioneer pre outs>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls) I've tried computer>Wyred PRE/DAC>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls... and it doesn't work nearly as well as the three above. Edited June 22, 2015 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) This may be an unwelcome aside but...every time I have tried any up-sampling schemes they have degraded the sound exactly as you are describing they had worse "dimensionality", they sounded "flatter", etc. I always found the direct, non-up-sampled outputs to ALWAYS be superior. In fact I found that any digital processing of the signal tended to make me give it the thumbs down. Nowadays I tend to find the highest quality source materials I can (at whatever smapling or bit rate it is found) and send it right to my DAC->preamp->amp->speakers for listening, no further manipulation of sample rate or bit depth added. you may have just discovered that is true for you as well. keep us informed, T Edited June 22, 2015 by sunnysal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 My advice, buy a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) My set up uses about 15,900 FLAC files and about 3,800 MP3 files as loaded into a 2011 Dell 8700 XPS , recorded using Media Monkey for the library, sound leveling and playlist management, using an external HRT Audio USB Dac. I still have a CD player, rarely used. I am a PC guy, as in not politically correct. http://www.musicdirect.com/p-46316-hrt-music-streamer-ii-43-oval.aspx?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=109835998370&gclid=CJuL-q__o8YCFYMDaQodb6UA9Q Edited June 22, 2015 by jacksonbart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 using jRiver... it's: Microsoft Surface Pro>USB>Wyred DAC2SE>digital COAX>Pioneer pre outs>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls For Disc playback... it's: Oppo93>digital COAX>Wyred DAC2SE>digital COAX>Pioneer pre outs>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls or Oppo93>HDMI>Pioneer DAC>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls all three work fairly well... but the top dog is clear. (Oppo93>digital COAX>Wyred DAC2SE>digital COAX>Pioneer pre outs>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls) I've tried computer>Wyred PRE/DAC>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls... and it doesn't work nearly as well as the three above. So the computer you're talking about is not the Surface Pro 3 right?. I need to know the operating system that the computer is running and if its 32bit or 64bit and the amount of memory in the machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) 64 bit 8.1 It's not the DAC Thad... I guarantee that. Edited June 22, 2015 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 64 bit 8.1 It's not the DAC Thad... I guarantee that. I don't think it's the DAC either, but maybe the DAC driver. This is the surface you're talking about, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNorton Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) using jRiver... it's: Microsoft Surface Pro>USB>Wyred DAC2SE>digital COAX>Pioneer pre outs>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls. Can you explain what the Pioneer is and why you would be connecting the output of your DAC to it with a digital coaxial cable. I'm not familiar with your kit, but that doesn't make sense to me ( maybe a mistake?) surely you should connect the analogue outputs of you DAC using a pair of normal interconnects into a line level input on the preamp? If for example it's because you're just using the W4S as a USB>spdif converter (if it allows that) then I'm fairly sure your not getting the best possible sound out of your equipment. Edited June 23, 2015 by UKNorton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) using jRiver... it's: Microsoft Surface Pro>USB>Wyred DAC2SE>digital COAX>Pioneer pre outs>RCA>Bel Canto monoblocks>Cornwalls. Can you explain what the Pioneer is and why you would be connecting the output of your DAC to it with a digital coaxial cable. I'm not familiar with your kit, but that doesn't make sense to me ( maybe a mistake?) surely you should connect the analogue outputs of you DAC using a pair of normal interconnects into a line level input on the preamp? If for example it's because you're just using the W4S as a USB>spdif converter (if it allows that) then I'm fairly sure your not getting the best possible sound out of your equipment. You know what - I just noticed that ...GOOD CATCH!!!! If he's coming Coax out of this Wyred DAC....his Wyred is not doing the processing - His Pioneer receiver DAC is doing all of the processing . Schu - you're missing out on what the Wyred is supposed to do! You should try this instead....Surface Pro>Wyred DAC2SE analog out>Pioneer Analog input (CD, AUX, etc.)>Bel Canto Monoblocks> Cornwalls. See if that sounds better - that's what I'm doing on my music end. Computer>Essence ST Analog out >Onkyo RC-HT180 (cd analog in)>Adcom 5503>Cornwalls. You get the benefit of the Wyred by coming out analog. If you come out coax - you're just transmitting a digital stream that then processed by your pioneer dac. Your Wyred should have the last word in the digital chain. Edited June 23, 2015 by prerich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Schu, by the way - what model Pioneer receiver are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I am really trying to get this computer based storage and streaming thing ip to snuff, yet no matter what I try I can not get the sound quality anywhere near the standard disc based playback. Even though the disc based playback is running at 44k and the computer based playback of an ape file is running at 192k, the disc is way ahead in dimension, separation and liveliness. it's not that the ape file is bad sounding, as a matter of fact it is extremely smooth and grain free, but it still lacks dimension and separation. those computer files sound very flat... very well resolved and crystal clear... but flat. I bought a brand new computer and run full jriver and ape files ripped from original source CD's or high res download. using the same DAC for both conversions unless jriver is doing something to the file before routing out of the usb port to the wyred dac. anyone have any ideas or is that what we give up for the sake of convenience? I could live with the jriver usb wyred solution if I had never experienced the oppo coax wyred playback. but I know the difference. I bet its that DAC - Told Ya its not wired for good sound Edited June 23, 2015 by A1UC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 well now, that just doesn't make sense... because... it's the DAC that is giving outstanding sound when running the oppo/cd set up. it is in advance of any other ess set up I have heard/owned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 why are you running through the pioneer at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I was wondering the same thing but you had it in the loop when you had sound that you liked with the Oppo. As much as I'd like you to try the DAC as your pre and remove the Pioneer for testing purposes... it seems your variable for when things turn bad is the computer. All kinds of things can destroy the sound using the PC as your source... it can also be reaaallllly nice! You could have power issues on the Surface whether on battery or power brick. Grounds can really screw with you sometimes... doesn't always result in an obvious hum. Did you check latency? Have another PC or Mac mini to give a try? I'd try getting services and processes down to a minimum. There are TONS of tweaks for the operating system to free up disk and processor activity. It matters! Here is an example I found... haven't gone through it completely but seems pretty standard from what I've seen. https://www.petri.com/optimize-windows-8-audio-setup-jriver-media-center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 well now, that just doesn't make sense... because... it's the DAC that is giving outstanding sound when running the oppo/cd set up. it is in advance of any other ess set up I have heard/owned. I was kidding Shu , I had a wyred Dac it sounded very good . I wouldn't run it through that PIO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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