joessportster Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Having a miss issue, first reared its head with cylinder 2, I repaired the plug wire seemed ok for awhile, more recently turned on the ac and the car started to miss pretty bad but no code generated today it started to miss bad again generated a code that cylinder 1 was mis firing, seems like I am getting an intermittent miss fire, I am also starting to hear lifter chatter under load / strain on the motor These all happen when going down the road out of no where it just starts to miss fire, the car is an 01 taurus with the 3.6 and 118000 miles, as far as I know wires and coil pack are original I am thinking new plugs, wires, and a coil pack, anyone else have any suggestions where to look ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Sounds like you are on the right track. Just started running your AC this year? Absolutely, as you know when missing yes, motor under strain with AC being on. Might try a tank of 93 octane just for the heck of it. Have known of intermittent plugwires. Sounds like you have a scanner. Sometimes they can be accurate, or misleading so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Pull your car in the garage or some place totally dark when it is acting up. Lift the hood and look for the spark of your plug wire shorting. If you think you have a dead pack, just pull the plug wire off and see if the miss gets worse or stays the same. Some packs have a ground strap, so make sure it is fastened tight. You can check the packs with a meter as well, but some that spec normal get weak when they get hot like an old school booster coil. If you have some valve noise, it could be a broke/weak spring not sealing which is just a bad a result as a dead or misfiring cylinder or it could be something as simple as a loose rocker/tappet arm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Had to replace a coil pack, and then just a month later, another one. Had a four cylinder ford that a plugwire was forever coming off, as it was near impossible to push it on well, even with tools. Edited June 22, 2015 by billybob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) I'd try the plugs first; they are designed to last 100,000 miles. The wires MAY also have to be replaced, as sometimes they come apart when changing the plugs. Edited June 22, 2015 by Sancho Panza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 All the Ford mechanics are busy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnthang Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 you nailed it! check plugs first (how old are they?) it could also be a weak coil pack or bad plug wires. if your plugs are very old ,start there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) So Sorry for the late response, The boys were both sick and think joey caught pink eye so been medicating that with antibiotics and tying his hands down , Max have no garage and the intermittent nature precludes me pulling into a garage (which I dont have available) A broken or loose tappet or rocker should show itself as a constant not intermittent. the plugs have been swapped at some point but I have no way of knowing when, the wires and coil appear original yes I have a scanner but all it said is P0301, Missfire on cylinder 1, same thing when I had a missfire on cyl. 2 it simply gave P0302, found the wire broken at the plug on cyl 2 when that happened, stripped it and repaired the wire, that plug was corroded to hell from not firing, and since it was on the back (hard to get at) I replaced it with (you guessed it cylinder 1's plug' cleaned the corrosion B-4 installing the plug into cyl 1) The car ran great about a month till I fired up the AC and it began to miss BADDLY, shut off the AC and after a couple miles the Missfire cleared up and the car ran great for a couple weeks now Its HOT as HADES out side and taking my brother to the store the car began to missfire and reports cylinder 1, since I already had 1 bad wire, and one severely corroded plug I figure its just time for plugs and wires. the intermittent nature makes me believe the coil may also be at risk since the car is at 118,000 miles....................at the end of the month I plan to get the parts and see them installed and will report back if the issues remain Good call on the fuel Octane billybob, (completely forgot about that old trick will fill er up with higher octane at next visit to the pumps and see if the lifter rattle subsides "All the Ford mechanics are busy :D" Good one Ceptor there is one in every crowd, I would rather fix this miss, than the spun bearing in the 87 surburban , Edited June 24, 2015 by joessportster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Good to hear back. Coffee thread asked where you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Thanks for the heads up, been busy as stated but will check in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) I think on those coil packs there are actually only three coils, two cylinders share a coil, so one fires while the other is on it's exhaust stroke. So a bad coil would have two cylinders misfire. The chatter you hear under load could very well be the AC compressor or AC compressor clutch causing an excessive load. The AC compressor will engage in just defrost mode not just air conditioning mode. If you think it is a misfire spray the wires and coil packs with water while the car is running, while stationary you can even hold the brake and step on the gas a little while the car is in drive to load the engine down, just be careful and don't brake the tires loose If my memory serves correctly those engins can also get an air leak between the intake manifold gasket, but usually this sets off lots of codes not just a misfire. I was an ASE certified mechanic, it's been a while but feel free to PM me or ask me any questions. Edited June 24, 2015 by thesloth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 If easy, swap coil packs and see if code follows coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Bring the maintenance up to speed and see what you have then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 If easy, swap coil packs and see if code follows coil. Unfortuneately the coil pack is one unit and the PCM fires the coils in a specific order. If it were the over head coil packs where each cylinder has it's own pack right above the spark plug this would be feasable. But swapping cylinders to the improper coils would result in multiple misfires. These coil packs are expensive so I wouldn't throw parts at it until you have it figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 These coil packs are expensive so I wouldn't throw parts at it until you have it figure out. I guarantee you Joe doesn't have the gear to systematically correctly diagnose the issue. This isn't a dig on Joe's tools, just the reality of the specialized gear needed to diagnose mis-fires now days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) I hear ya. If he hasn't tried yet I would still try spraying around the wires and coil pack with a bottle of water and see if he gets a misfire. As stated before, in a dark room you can even see where the insulation has been broken down by a pretty little arc. The potential is very high in these coils, like double digit kilovolts, that energy will find ground. IF the maintenance has not been done like plugs and wires then this is the most likely culprit. Edited June 24, 2015 by thesloth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 OH and the chatter noise and misfire when AC is used is a big clue though now that I think about it. Maybe remove the accessory drive belt (serpentine belt) and try and spin the AC compressor by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I've seen loose ac belts trigger misfire codes. Contrary to popular opinion, the ignition doesn't have to malfunction to trigger a misfire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I've seen that A/C belt problem, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Yes motor under a load sure enough when skipping. all kinds of noise attributable to skip. In any case Joe, some high Octane to help blow out the carbon and ease lifter chatter if any left after your maint. should be good to go. Just be careful not to blow too much carbon out quickly by doing what I recently did to our Volvo If thesloth right, only 2 coilpacks to replace, when you want or need to. BTW, welcome to forum again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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