Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Sign in to follow this  
teknoid

Tapped Horn subwoofer. Is this a crazy idea?

Recommended Posts

Quote from the first post: "Yea... I'm sure someone here is going to suggest doing the LS ported riser mod. I tried that with the pair I owned. Yes, it did improve the bass output but I felt like it took something away from the sound of the La Scalas."

The OP did not say if he had used an EQ filter with his riser mod. That might be worth investigating before a big build project. DJK is the man to ask about this he knows all about the riser mod and how to EQ it properly.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I need to read slower or for that matter, just slow down.

 

I run a Danley DTS-10 and will tell you, it is large. Like 4 feet by 5 feet large. You could build a tapped horn with a 10" sub that will scale down closer to a riser size. Two would give you plenty of bass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm getting closer to making a considerable investment in what I hope will be my LAST 2 channel system. Plans for that system include a pair of La Scalas. Having previously owned a pair and knowing that they don't go very low a subwoofer or a pair of them is also in the plans.
 
The idea is this. Build a pair of tapped horn subwoofers working with the width and depth dimensions of the La Scalas. Build them such that they act as "risers" for the La Scalas.
 
Yea... I'm sure someone here is going to suggest doing the LS ported riser mod. I tried that with the pair I owned. Yes, it did improve the bass output but I felt like it took something away from the sound of the La Scalas.
 
The inspiraion for this idea is a friend of mine who DJs for a living. He has a pair of smaller Danley Labs tapped horn subwoofer and I've been amazed aout their bass output.
 
So should I go back on my meds or what?

 

Not crazy at all. You kill two birds with one stone. Raising the La Scalas up so they sound better (and they really do) and getting good clean low horn bass.

 

Most tapped horns are only good to 50-70 Hz. I would recommend building the same sub that TROMPROF has built. My Quarter Pie Horns are good down to 50 Hz. and are compatible with ANY tapped horn.

 

HOWEVER, a LaScala stops being a horn at about 104 Hz., so you should build the F-20 sub, to be found elsewhere here. It was designed by Lil Mike on the AVS forum, I think. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It was designed by Lil Mike on the AVS forum, I think.

 

That is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Quote from the first post: "Yea... I'm sure someone here is going to suggest doing the LS ported riser mod. I tried that with the pair I owned. Yes, it did improve the bass output but I felt like it took something away from the sound of the La Scalas."

The OP did not say if he had used an EQ filter with his riser mod. That might be worth investigating before a big build project. DJK is the man to ask about this he knows all about the riser mod and how to EQ it properly.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I need to read slower or for that matter, just slow down.

 

I run a Danley DTS-10 and will tell you, it is large. Like 4 feet by 5 feet large. You could build a tapped horn with a 10" sub that will scale down closer to a riser size. Two would give you plenty of bass.

 

I run TWO DTS-10's (overkill, I know) and they are TWICE as large, LOL. They were a great match for a Quarter Pie, but should not be used at over 60 Hz. so are not a good match for a LaScala. You need a sub that goes to 100 Hz. like a Tuba HT, or Lil Mike's F-20.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know the difference of tapped horn vs folded horn.  But there are a couple that come to mind.  TTLS, LiL wrecker, Cinema F20, our resident sub builder will chime in here short l with some more ideas. 

 

But no your not crazy, I am build 2 Danely THSpuds for my home theater.   Some folks have Danely DTS-10s. 

 

 

 

don't forget to slap a K510 or larger K402 on top (and ditch the K400/401 & K77)

 

I swear Roy must pay you to say that, though it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

I just sold my DTS-10's and will only have them for another week. I will be building SPUDS since I am downsizing everything I own for the new space. I will only give up 4-5 Hz. on the bottom as a result. Inconsequential for music (2.1) and the missing 5 Hz. at the bottom barely noticeable for movies (Godzilla excepted). I do give up 6 db of efficiency however, but power is cheap.

Edited by ClaudeJ1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be wrong but it sounds like the OP wants a horn loaded sub a small fraction of the volume of his LaScala which he can use as a riser under his LaSala and that is not possible bucause you cannot scale horns.

Claude are you going to be running your 1/4 pie with the Spuds? Still this is a sizable system and it is much larger than what the OP is discussing. Congrats by the way on the new Synergy horns. Best regards Moray James.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like the main issue with tapped horns is not putting them under the La Scalas, but their somewhat limited upper end. Another solution is to just build risers and a decent horn sub to go elsewhere. The first sub I built was a tuba table for my La Scalas. It was plenty capable of keeping up, and in the room I was using them in, having a single source for low bass was not a problem. The bigger F20 or Tuba HT would work as well.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A single Table Tuba is a fine option as mentioned a few times earlier but if you do go that route build one at least 24" wide with double 8" drivers or double up your cabinets if using a single 8" design for best results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The op has not commented on whether or not he used any EQ when he first tried the riser reflex mod he only said that he was not totally pleased with the results. The EQ will have a big impact I am sure. Small subs are not going to go any or much lower than the LaScala with a riser mod can go. Dennis mentioned making the dog house volume smaller in another thread worth looking into before a big project is undertaken and the riser mod is so fast easy and cheap to do maybe the OP ought to give it a second shot with EQ if he has not already tried this approach? Best regards Moray James.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/148307-lascala-mods/

Edited by moray james

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My Quarter Pie Horns are good down to 50 Hz. and are compatible with ANY tapped horn.

 

"compatible" or comparable?

 

Sorry for the nitpick, I just want to understand what you are saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot speak for tecknoid (the original post) but I think he was attempting to do exactly what I plan on doing, a small tapped horn laid on its side to double as a riser and add bass to the mains (his LaScallas or my Belles) The size of the plans I have seen, make this a very good fit. The debate is not if there are better options at any cost or size, but does this idea have merit. I for one, love a project and even if this set up does not rock my world or flap my pants legs, I'm ok with that. My set up is in my living room with little or no room for a subwoofer much less one the size of Buick. To put a sub (or two) underneath the existing mains takes up no additional room and should add to the low end. I don't believe these speakers need a ton of addition help in this area (for music only). I have tried direct radiating subs with this set up, but didn't care for it. Bottom line, not going to have most ideal room placement or floor space or budget to have the end all be all system. Just want to enjoy the music. I have about 8 years to retirement, then I hope I have enough gas left in the tank to build a sound room and worry only about getting best possible sound without compromise. I have attached a photo to show what I am dealing with (not to mention wife factor)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My Quarter Pie Horns are good down to 50 Hz. and are compatible with ANY tapped horn.

 

"compatible" or comparable?

 

Sorry for the nitpick, I just want to understand what you are saying.

 

Compatible. Tapped Horns are good from 50 Hz down. My Quarter Pies are good from 50 Hz. up. ALL Klipsch speakers, even the Khorn and Jubilee need subs to get flat down to pipe organ or modern bass recordings with 5-6 string basses.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To the OP. I would recommend you a Bill Fitzmaurice full horn design that uses a 12" LAB driver. The will keep the riser from being too tall.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is a great idea. I have suggested the exact same thing in another thread for my Belle's. I was planning on starting on this project sometime in the late summer early fall. The idea of not taking up any extra floor space and raising the Belles at the same time sounds like a win/win. I like the bass provided by horn loading and would like to try in a sub as well. I have not bought the plans yet but have been told you can choose 6 1/2" woofer or 8" or 10". I am afraid the 6 1/2 wont keep up and the 10" would be too large for my living room. If you do take the plunge, keep us posted.

I can see doing what you suggest but the OP clearly said in the first post he wants a sub 24" wide by 24" deep and some height such that the sub acts as a riser and that is not possible. Quote: The idea is this. Build a pair of tapped horn subwoofers working with the width and depth dimensions of the La Scalas. Build them such that they act as "risers" for the La Scalas. End Quote. What is being described is the reflex vent mod not an additional horn loaded sub. Best regards Moray James.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You lost me. Neither the OP or myself are looking for reflex vent mod. We are looking to set our mains on top of a horn loaded sub. He stated he had tried a reflex vent mod and wanted to go a different direction. Am I confused?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a vision of LaScala type cabinet but is ported out the doghouse point, by having a gap in it. Then there would be a point at the front side of the woofer directing it through a normal LaScala type horn.

 

Oops sorry I guess I should have read the rest of the posts. Sorry for the jacking. :(

post-57173-0-07300000-1435436171_thumb.j

Edited by cradeldorf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I am saying is that the op specifically stipulated that the sub/riser would be the same dimensions as the LaScala in width and depth and son height which I will assume to be a fraction of the height of the LaScala shnce he wanted to use it as a riser so I think fair to assume 1/3 or less the total height of the LaScala. further the OP wanted a horn loaded sub. So what I am saying is that this is not something that is going to work very well and you are not going to be able to generate a lot of output. I keep saying that you cannot scale a horn i needs to be at least a 1/4 long at the lowest frequency of interest and the mouth should be as large as possible. That was why I suggested some of the small tapped horn designs for 6.5" woofers they can go low and are compact and four or six of those in a room would break up room modes and make a reasonable quantity of bass. You cannot make a small 20Hz horn it is pphysically impossible. That was why I also asked if the OP had used a filter with the riser mod because most people dont and it will help performance a lot I even provided a link about the riser mod and the filter to the man who came up with the idea in the first place. Hope this helps. Best regards Moray James.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe another way at this is to make more room for a basshorn by using a runt on top? Assuming those are maybe half-LS-size and relaxing the size a little, maybe that works in the footprint? FWIW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...