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Driver comparison Faital HF200 and Beyma CP750Ti at Jabo horn


Mariusz_

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Recently I have put some horn - driver combinations on top of my La Scala II bass bin. 

Maybe someone will be interested in my experience with Faital HF200 and Beyma CP750Ti.

I used them with big Jabo KH-72 horn. Actually I used HF200 and now I am testing Beyma.

 

So:

 

First, Jabo makes good 2-way configuration with La Scala. It sounds surprisingly good from 500hz to the high end. 

 

Second, stereo imaging is the best I ever heard, it's clearly 2-way-with-crossing-low  advantage.

 

Third, I can't tell at the moment which driver is better but they are different.

Faital is more "soft" and better for long listening.

Beyma sounds more clear due to being louder at mid highs and highs.

 

The chart shows the difference, look the lines from 2 khz. (the level is not calibrated to show absolute SPL, but the relative values are comparable, bass bin disconnected)

Mariusz

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Edited by mwnuk
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In this case flatter response didn't convince me. I can compromise on it for more pleasant sound of HF200. 

 

BTW, I also checked that Beyma had more THD and intermodular distorsions - maybe this is the reason of HF200 listening advantage.

 

Soon I will compare Faital HF200 and HF204, stay tuned ;-)

Edited by Mariusz_
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it's not all about the frequency response. in music we don't play sweeps!  a driver should be fast enough to be able to pronounce different frequencies without hesitation in intervals to get to equilibrium position. this is where the weight of moving mass of diaphragm is important and that's one of the reasons TADs with Beryllium diaphragms sound superb.

I would give them a long listening and decide which one will sound better to my ear

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You might try EQing the two compression drivers to be flatter with respect to each other, then listen again.  I've found that even small differences in FR can affect listening judgments fairly strongly.

 

And I agree that looking at the harmonic distortion levels (mostly higher orders than 2nd or 3rd harmonic) at the lower end of their passbands will reveal (as least partially) why you might prefer the Faital Pro driver.

 

Also, if you can look at the constructed impulse response (I assume that your analysis tool will do this) and look very closely for time-based ripples in the impulse curve after about 1 ms, then count the number of ripple peaks per millisecond: this is a good way to find the frequency of and relative level of HF chatter in both drivers, typically above 10 kHz.  Drivers with very low chatter sound much better over time, IMHE. 

 

The reference case that I use is the TAD TD-4002 Be-diaphragm drivers, which have their chatter above 20 kHz--which is inaudible.

 

Chris

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You might try EQing the two compression drivers to be flatter with respect to each other, then listen again.  I've found that even small differences in FR can affect listening judgments fairly strongly.

 

 

Actually I did and I was able to make Faital curve match the one of Beyma. So it seems pretty easy to have the same frequency response.

 

Speaking of Be-diaphragmas I agree that their sound physics is amazing which results in superb performance. That's why I wonder how direct comparison of HF200 and HF204 in my 2-way system will be. The first has titanium, the latter polymer diaphragm. So sound of speed/density ratio should be twice as higher in HF204 than in HF200. (BTW this ratio for berylium is 6, for titanium 1, and about 2 for polymers).

Edited by Mariusz_
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You might try EQing the two compression drivers to be flatter with respect to each other, then listen again.  I've found that even small differences in FR can affect listening judgments fairly strongly.

 

Actually I did and I was able to make Faital curve match the one of Beyma. So it seems pretty easy to have the same frequency response.

 

Speaking of Be-diaphragmas I agree that their sound physics is amazing which results in superb performance. That's why I wonder how direct comparison of HF200 and HF204 in my 2-way system will be. The first has titanium, the latter polymer diaphragm. So sound of speed/density ratio should be twice as higher in HF204 than in HF200. (BTW this ratio for berylium is 6, for titanium 1, and about 2 for polymers).

Mariusz: since you have such great measuring rig why don't you try a double cutaway Karlson K-Tube made out of paper? Works with every driver no miss match as is so common with horns. allows excellent comparison of drivers each is equally well loaded neither has throat reflections due to horn miss match. Double cutaway example is on left side of photo. make out of a single layer of paper with tape easy to keep round if you use a very thin wire hoop like the wire in a twist tie burn off the paper. Make the tube the same dias. as the driver exit opening so you will have a perfect match every time 5 - 6 inches long will do fast to make up different profiles. I like a profile which almost looks round at the open end with the expo slot extending almost the full length of the tube. open slot is vertical centre of tube art your seated ear level looking directly down the centre of each tube. works for me. Best regards Moray James.

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Edited by moray james
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I think non-titanium drivers are easier to ear. at least to my ear polymer diaphragms sound smoother and more relaxed. for example I have B&C DE250 (Polyimide) and DE500 (Titanium). both measure pretty the same with flat response. DE500 has a little bit better top end and it's almost twice the price of DE250. I prefer the sound of DE250 over DE500.

 

DE250:

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DE500:

post-41711-0-37560000-1435600272_thumb.j

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I think non-titanium drivers are easier to ear. at least to my ear polymer diaphragms sound smoother and more relaxed. for example I have B&C DE250 (Polyimide) and DE500 (Titanium). both measure pretty the same with flat response. DE500 has a little bit better top end and it's almost twice the price of DE250. I prefer the sound of DE250 over DE500.

 

DE250:

attachicon.gifde20.jpg

 

DE500:

attachicon.gifde500.jpg

I would agree. for existing Klipsch drivers ti is the only upgrade available over phenolic.

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Hi, Folks,

 

Moray, this might be in your wheel-house. I have a pair of KLF30's and have always been facinated with K-tubes and perhaps replacing the mid & high horns...three-way to two-way system conversion.  It just so happens that I have a pair of Gauss 4080, 4" drivers lying around. Here's some questions; Besides being interested in trying The Gauss's with some version of K-tubes on the two inch openings, have you ever heard of anyone trying 4" K-tubes utilizing the rear wave projection of the four-inch diaphram? Any suggestions?

 

Peace,

Speak-up

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Yes some large K-Tube devices have been used I think up to 12 inches in dia. Robert Reams. This is like any horn driver throat opening the larger the opening the llower the cut off so a really good wide range compromise for home use is in the 1.4" - 2" range. The Dh1allows you to remove the extender snout and go from 2" exit down to 1.4" exit. You four inch Gauss would make for a nice mid driver I assume it has a 2" exit? You can experiment very easily with paper to make tube of any profile you like a little twist tie wire can be used to make a keeper hoop to insure your simple paler tube stays round. I use all double cutaway style tubes no as my preference. You can make these up in minutes and be listening immediately with nothing more than some scotch tape. Best regards Moray James.

http://home.planet.nl/~ulfman/artic/kkoppler/kkopl_en.html

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Edited by moray james
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