totalcomfort Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Wanting to get a cheap tube amp to start. Don't know if I want to go the tube amp way in the bedroom system or not.Saw a couple on flea bay listed as hybrid tube amp and were only 200.00. thought I might give it a try.So what is a hybrid? Is is a SS front end with tube output?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 As a rule SS power, tubes in the preamp section. Many folks running separates like the power afforded with a SS power amp with a tube preamp. The same configuration for the one-box hybrid integrated. At the moment I am running a 200 watt hybrid integrated with MOSFET SS power and 4x 6922's in the preamp section. Really, really shines on the KHorns using Phillips Miniwatt (Amperex) tubes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Who's rule is that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I have rarely seen a hybrid integrated with tubes for power, SS for preamp. They may be out there but I can't name one offhand. Can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) I use a tube hybird for 2 ch. It is 80 watt ss rear and tube preamp. Lots of power andd a nice clean detailed sound. I actually let my McIntosh 1900 integrated amp go in favor of the Yaquin VK 2100. What speaker will you be using? Edited June 27, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 "They may be out there but I can't name one offhand. Can you?" Audio Research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 What concerns do you have about going with a full tube amp as opposed to a hybrid? Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalcomfort Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 I use a tube hybird for 2 ch. It is 80 watt ss rear and tube preamp. Lots of power andd a nice clean detailed sound. I actually let my McIntosh 1900 integrated amp go in favor of the Yaquin VK 2100. What speaker will you be using? I will be using it to drive my kiroshimas with fostex fe206 drivers in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalcomfort Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 What concerns do you have about going with a full tube amp as opposed to a hybrid? Maynard No concerns, am wanting to try out a tube amp the cheap way before diving all the way in. Wanting to see if the sound change is worth it to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 R we talkin about old radio tubes? Im considering big klipshoirns for my first horn. Do I need tubes amps??? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 My current layout (and about to change) Feed from Tube DAC to Tube Pre to Elect crossover (set For two way) then split signal to Tube Amp for Mid/Highs, SS for bass. This would be called Bi-Amped. Wattage would be 70 per the highs. 250 for the bass These power levels are per channel. This is a popular way to set up a Bi-Amped system because tubes are used for purity/clairty and you do not need to drive the amp hard at all. SS is used for the bass and can pound out more than you can stand, but again, it's not being pushed hard at all. Never had one problem with either amp(s), still original tubes. (KT88s X4) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) wanting to try out a tube amp the cheap way before diving all the way in. Wanting to see if the sound change is worth it to me? Change, as in audible differences, would be more pronounced with at tube output stage than a tube pre or line stage. A lot of the tube sound is due to higher output impedance and transformer coupling of tube amps. There seem to have been more than a couple good options in our own Garage Sale forum recently, from classics rebuilt by known technicians, to some single ended jobs. And per your original post, you want "cheap.' To me, that means something that presents little financial risk. edit: too late for this one, but an example: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/157480-ampsandsound-big-ben-with-nos-tubes-800/ Edited June 27, 2015 by Ski Bum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Given the high efficiency and high impedance of the FE206 you won't need huge power; and it should be very easy to drive with any kind of tube amp, including SETs. Personally, with single drivers, I prefer the sound of SEPs or SETs (either can be magical in my opinion). Do you know anyone who has an amp to bring over for you to get a first hand experience? That's the only way you will know if it is what you're looking for. As far as cost goes, you can find some very inexpensive imported single ended amps (check Amazon), but I question whether you will get a real idea of just how wonderful tubes can be if using them. Too many compromises come into play, especially in regard to the output transformers.Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I thought the OP was using Cornscalas or something more Klipschy. ?? Maynard, you made a post long, long ago about your whole process when designing an amp for someone, which I wanted to link to but am too lazy to go through all your posts to locate. Do you have it handy by any chance? I think it would help the OP get a proper grip on exploring the tube sound, the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 There really is no tube sound per se. Yes tubes are high impedance devices, but you can still get a good dampening factor with tubes, this will most likely be achieved through the use of negative feedback. An amp with a high output impedance whether tubes or SS will react with the speaker more like a constant current source. A driver for those of you that don't know changes it's impedance depending on frequency. With a higher impedance (usually higher frequencies) you will get more voltage across it due to the voltage divider effect. An amp with a low output impedance will put out more power with lower resistance, because it will behave more like a voltage source. These interactions are very important when matching amps to speakers. More importantly the output impedance will also interact with the back EMF produced by the voice coil, the lower the resistance of the output of the amplifier the more it will control the speaker giving you tighter bass. Tubes are naturally more linear the SS, period. The only reason why you get such low distortion is because of the large amounts of feedback required in using SS. I find you can get extemely low distortion and high dampening factor with very little feedback when compared to SS. If you listen to lots of intricate music with lots going on (orchestra) or anything with lots of tight bass you need an amp with high dampening factor (low output impedance) and low distortion usually <1%. If you listen to very simple music, female vocals, solo instruments, etc.... you will find that an amp with high distortion especially second order (which is an octave above and reinforces the fundamental frequency) will make it sound warmer and fuller, but this can muddy up very intricate musical passages. So to recap, tubes can produce adequate dampening factor and low distortion if engineered correctly. SS can also be engineered to have high output impedance and high distortion to sound more like poorly engineered tube amps. Check out Nelson Pass' F2, it is a SE Mosfet amplifier, output impedance if 15 (with an 8 ohm speaker that's a dampening factor of .53) and THD of 1% at only 1 watt. I am not condemning Mr. Pass, he is a very intelligent individual that understands how to engineer amplifiers for specific purposes. I guess I am trying to say there are no bad devices just bad engineers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckAb3 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Don't blame you for wanting to start on the cheap but if you get a chance audition the Vincent line of hybrids. Tubes in the pre and SS in the output. Think they offer both integrateds and separates. Not cheap but not outrageous either and very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Ski Bum, thanks for reminding me about that post (your memory is a lot better than mine!!!). Amazingly, I was able to find it: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/149147-fresh-off-the-bench/The amp is the one that Michael (Thaddeus Smith) is now using with his CWs.Regarding damping factor and output impedance, it's hard to find a real consensus about it in the context of how it affects sound. Some very good points are made in this article by George Augspurger in 1967: http://www.butleraudio.com/damping1.phpPerhaps the other tube guys who hang out on here will add their thoughts as well.Maynard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) So you only have $200 to spend eh? Now that's a challenge! I can only think of one hybrid integrated that's worth considering at this price - and that is the Quinpu A6000 MK II. The good news is that this unit delivers exceptional sound for the buck. The bad news is that it's discontinued. The worse news is that the reliability is rather spotty. Still, if you want to learn more about the unit, then check out my review of it by clicking here. Another product worth considering is the Jolida 1301. It's long been discontinued so if you want one, you'll have to put in some time to sniff one out. I believe Jolida replaced this piece with the 301. Still, the new unit sells for over twice your budget of $200.00. And therein lies the problem.... Look man, I'll be honest with you - it's tough to find excellent sounding tube gear (be it full-on tube, or hybrid) under the $500 price point. This holds ESPECIALLY true if you're concerned about sundry things like warranty support should something go wrong. If your mind and wallet is dead set on going cheap, then accept that you'll be taking a risk no matter what you go with. If that's cool, then go for it and let us know what you encounter! But if the idea of taking that risk isn't too awesome, then I'd encourage you to save up some cash and wait until you can purchase a used Anthem integrated or something from the likes of Vincent Audio. Good luck! Edited June 27, 2015 by Zero 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) Hey Sean, I like your reviews! Heck, if I ever decide to come out of retirement I'll hire you to review my stuff!!! This is probably a good opportunity to mention that I've petitioned Chad to try (on an experimental basis) adding another forum category- "Tubes and Klipsch." As all know, most of the speakers work very well with tube amps ranging from flea power to high power. A specific forum category for that would certainly contribute to public awareness. It certainly won't hurt sales and can only increase them. If you guys agree, send Chad an email supporting the idea. I'm hoping that if there's enough interest expressed, he'll give the idea some consideration. Maynard Edited June 27, 2015 by tube fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyOwn Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 This is probably a good opportunity to mention that I've petitioned Chad to try (on an experimental basis) adding another forum category- "Tubes and Klipsch." As all know, most of the speakers work very well with tube amps ranging from flea power to high power. A specific forum category for that would certainly contribute to public awareness. It certainly won't hurt sales and can only increase them. If you guys agree, send Chad an email supporting the idea. I'm hoping that if there's enough interest expressed, he'll give the idea some consideration. This is a wonderful idea... Love this quote..... A scientist is giving a public lecture. During the course of his speech, he predicts that in 100 billion years human life will become extinct. A man in the audience, obviously upset, asks the lecturer to repeat the statement. "I said", quotes the professor, "that in one hundred billion years, human life will no longer exist." "Oh, thank goodness", replies the man, much relieved, "I thought you said one-hundred million!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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