godfried Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hi everyone We (culture cooperation Brebl in Nijmegen, the Netherlands) just bought this "secret jubilee". I think it will be a great sounding setup. One pair, no x-overs. We want to use it for amplifying bands and disco (techno, garage, house etc....) , in an old warehouse of approximately 250m2 and around 350 persons? Will she serve? Any thoughts? Eventually we even want to use her as a replacement for our very big but old MCM set, but will she give us the right bass sound, or shall we keep the MWM bins and ditch the mid/high of the MCM stack? She was sold to us as being a prototype. To me she looks like a Jubilee KHJ and a 510. We've bought her unseen (apart from the pics) and we know there's no x-over, so we'd better bi-amp her. We've got a nice dvx x-over and 2 inkel M420 (100w 8 ohm, 150w 4 ohm). But will that be enough. If she's a real KHJ, the bass amp can be 400w. (Am i right?) The big question is the crossover frequency. Another question. Since the mid/high is I presume around 1,5m hight, does any body know what will happen if we put her on a rolling risers, let's 50 cm up. Otherwise all the sound is going in the first row of dancing people. regards, Godfried Any input is more than welcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 What kind of subwoofer(s) are you intending to cross over to, and at what frequency? The K-510 horn loses vertical pattern control around 450 Hz, so I'd recommend crossing above 600 Hz, especially in terms of saving your compression drivers from banging the phase plugs at very high SPL. I'd recommend active bi-amping, not passives, and 24 dB/octave slopes for that much power. The horizontal coverage of the KPT-KHJ-LF bass bins will be a little narrow at that higher crossover point - about 20-30 degrees, The KPT-KHJ bass bins (of which you've got the original version that was produced before about 2009) will handle 400 w/channel and will go lower than the MWM bins the you have, but they could use a boundary. Is that where you have the MCM stacks now? Putting them on risers without a baffle extending to the floor around the bins doesn't sound like a good idea to me in terms of bass suck-out issues. I'd fill in the holes between the riser and the floor if possible. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfried Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hi Chris, thanks for the reply, So the rolling riser needs to have a baffle, The crossover between KHJ and 510 will be at 600 hz and 24db Lower than the MWM bins is nice, so may be we even don't need seek for subwoofers. So we will start 2 way. The super spuds (Danley dts10) are not for sale in the Netherlands, nobody uses them over here, and the DIY packet is no longer for sale You're remark about a boundery I don't understand, can you explain please. regards, Godfried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 You're remark about a boundery I don't understand, can you explain please. The KPT-KHJ-LF bass bin has an undersized mouth (as virtually all horn-loaded bass bins do), and is sensitive to having a wall or corner behind it to complete the lowest octave of performance, i.e., it was designed as a corner horn, but it will work fine along a wall. Placing this type of bass bin more than 0.5 metre from a wall will rob it of about 1/2 octave of performance, and about one octave of performance if more than a half metre from a corner. This is not unlike the MWM bins on your current MCM stacks. You will get about 31 Hz performance (-3 dB) if the KPT-KHJ-LF bins are placed into a room corner (within 0.5 metre of touching), and about 50 Hz (-3 dB) if placed along a wall. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfried Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hi Chris, thanks for this update. The problem is, we have to position them with their backs to the long side of our venue, , so I understand what you mean. We're gonna try and work it out. May be tis means that they'll go to our upperroom, there's a possibility to place them (on risers) along the wall. Regards, Godfried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfried Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 one more question, on our Klipsch Jubilee the part number on the horn is 132003, which is the K-510 HORN PAINTED, but the back of the driver is without any stickers or branding. There's a small part number saying 130702. Does any body know what driver this is? Regards, Godfried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 No clue. Perhaps a picture of the back of the driver might help to identify it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfried Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Hi Chris, it's just all black, no sticker whatshowever, just flat, 3 allen screws, plus and minus... see the pics Edited July 13, 2015 by godfried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 That looks like the rare "K-69" compression driver (i.e., NOT the K-69-A found on most K-510 and K-402 horns today). It's actually a B&C DE75 driver like this one: http://www.parts-express.com/bc-de75ptn-2-titanium-compression-driver-8-ohm-4-bolt--294-5828 If it is, it actually sounds better than the K-69-A, in my opinion. CHris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfried Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hi Chris, thanks for all the information you've given us. I think we have a beautiful lady in the house, now looking for the best place to give her the best sound. regards, Godfried 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Hi everyone We (culture cooperation Brebl in Nijmegen, the Netherlands) just bought this "secret jubilee". I think it will be a great sounding setup. One pair, no x-overs. We want to use it for amplifying bands and disco (techno, garage, house etc....) , in an old warehouse of approximately 250m2 and around 350 persons? Will she serve? Any thoughts? Eventually we even want to use her as a replacement for our very big but old MCM set, but will she give us the right bass sound, or shall we keep the MWM bins and ditch the mid/high of the MCM stack? She was sold to us as being a prototype. To me she looks like a Jubilee KHJ and a 510. We've bought her unseen (apart from the pics) and we know there's no x-over, so we'd better bi-amp her. We've got a nice dvx x-over and 2 inkel M420 (100w 8 ohm, 150w 4 ohm). But will that be enough. If she's a real KHJ, the bass amp can be 400w. (Am i right?) The big question is the crossover frequency. Another question. Since the mid/high is I presume around 1,5m hight, does any body know what will happen if we put her on a rolling risers, let's 50 cm up. Otherwise all the sound is going in the first row of dancing people. regards, Godfried Any input is more than welcome. one pair of 2 way Jubilees is not enough for your application - 2 maybe at least and they have to be 3 way - the problem is the warehouse which will sound very canny -these carry 2 12 inch woofer per enclosure - and than is simply not enough - maybe in conjunction - that would give you a better sound - more detailed -but still not enough for 350 people that create a lot of noise on their own - so you need to over-ride that sound and that means 2 twice more sound to deafen that noise before actual music is heard - then again for wider dispersion - you are missing the K402 horn and k69 driver - with that it would be an entire different animal - -figure 2 pairs of jubilees - 3 way on the 4 corners plus the MCM for the bass - that would be really good -but since you already have a pair of Jubilees and 1 Mcm- that aint bad either - Edited July 19, 2015 by Randyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 "The K-510 horn loses vertical pattern control around 450 Hz," More like 1,450hz, it simply isn't that big. HORIZONTAL 80 20 400Hz-18kHzVERTICAL 60 20 2kHz-19kHz Klipsch claims 60° at 2Khz, that's believable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Guys, It helps to use data instead of personal belief systems. My definition of "losing polar control" for a horn is that it loses all polar control (i.e., 360 degrees coverage) instead of some assumed level of coverage. Here is data (and even though the title says "calculated" it's actual coverage): Note that the K-510 horn's horizontal coverage is better. This is a very special horn, IMHO. Please be careful about stating facts that aren't true. Chris Edited July 21, 2015 by Chris A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 "My definition of "losing polar control" for a horn it that it loses all polar control (i.e., 360 degrees coverage) instead of some assumed level of coverage. " Nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted July 21, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted July 21, 2015 Sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 For best results in a hi-fi speaker you need to cross the drivers where the Di is similar, so you need to use a well defined standard (-6dB points). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted July 22, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted July 22, 2015 Got it. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfried Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 In the end, we never used them, changed our plans, so they are for sale right now it's a pity, but we hope some else will be happy with them. If interested, they are in the Garage sale section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's a good thing because for 250 sq/m space and 350 people you would probably need 8 pairs or more of those Jubilees. 510 horns would not be right for that application. In fact the Jubilee itself is actually a poor choice for a space that large and for that many people. It's just too small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 U gonna ship from the Netherlands? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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