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bi-amping a Jubilee + 510


godfried

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Hi everyone

 

We (culture cooperation Brebl in Nijmegen, the Netherlands) just bought this "secret jubilee". I think it will be a great sounding setup. One pair, no x-overs. 

We want to use it for amplifying bands and disco (techno, garage, house etc....) , in an old warehouse of approximately 250m2 and around 350 persons? Will she serve? Any thoughts?

 

Eventually we even want to use her as a replacement for our very big but old MCM set, but will she give us the right bass sound, or shall we keep the MWM bins and ditch the mid/high of the MCM stack?

 

She was sold to us as being a prototype. To me she looks like a Jubilee KHJ and a 510. We've bought her unseen (apart from the pics) and we know there's no x-over, so we'd better bi-amp her. We've got a nice dvx x-over and 2 inkel M420 (100w 8 ohm, 150w 4 ohm). But will that be enough. If she's a real KHJ, the bass amp can be 400w. (Am i right?) The big question is the crossover frequency.

Another question. Since the mid/high is I presume around 1,5m hight, does any body know what will happen if we put her on a rolling risers, let's 50 cm up. Otherwise all the sound is going in the first row of dancing people.

 

regards, Godfried

 

Any input is more than welcome.

 

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What kind of subwoofer(s) are you intending to cross over to, and at what frequency?

 

The K-510 horn loses vertical pattern control around 450 Hz, so I'd recommend crossing above 600 Hz, especially in terms of saving your compression drivers from banging the phase plugs at very high SPL. I'd recommend active bi-amping, not passives, and 24 dB/octave slopes for that much power.  The horizontal coverage of the KPT-KHJ-LF bass bins will be a little narrow at that higher crossover point - about 20-30 degrees,

 

The KPT-KHJ bass bins (of which you've got the original version that was produced before about 2009) will handle 400 w/channel and will go lower than the MWM bins the you have, but they could use a boundary.  Is that where you have the MCM stacks now?  

 

Putting them on risers without a baffle extending to the floor around the bins doesn't sound like a good idea to me in terms of bass suck-out issues.  I'd fill in the holes between the riser and the floor if possible.

 

Chris

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Hi Chris, thanks for the reply,

 

So the rolling riser needs to have a baffle,

The crossover between KHJ and 510 will be at 600 hz and 24db 

Lower than the MWM bins is nice, so may be we even don't need seek for subwoofers. So we will start 2 way.

 

The super spuds (Danley dts10) are not for sale in the Netherlands, nobody uses them over here, and the DIY packet is no longer for sale :(

You're remark about a boundery I don't understand, can you explain please.

 

regards, Godfried

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You're remark about a boundery I don't understand, can you explain please.

 

The KPT-KHJ-LF bass bin has an undersized mouth (as virtually all horn-loaded bass bins do), and is sensitive to having a wall or corner behind it to complete the lowest octave of performance, i.e., it was designed as a corner horn, but it will work fine along a wall.

 

Placing this type of bass bin more than 0.5 metre from a wall will rob it of about 1/2 octave of performance, and about one octave of performance if more than a half metre from a corner.  This is not unlike the MWM bins on your current MCM stacks.

 

You will get about 31 Hz performance (-3 dB) if the KPT-KHJ-LF bins are placed into a room corner (within 0.5 metre of touching), and about 50 Hz (-3 dB) if placed along a wall.

 

Chris

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Hi Chris,

 

thanks for this update. The problem is, we have to position them with their backs to the long side of our venue, :( , so I understand what you mean. We're gonna try and work it out. May be tis means that they'll go to our upperroom, there's a possibility to place them (on risers) along the wall.

 

Regards, Godfried

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  • 2 weeks later...

one more question, on our Klipsch Jubilee the part number on the horn is 132003, which is the K-510 HORN PAINTED, but the back of the driver is without any stickers or branding. There's a small part number saying 130702. Does any body know what driver this is?

Regards, Godfried

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That looks like the rare "K-69" compression driver (i.e., NOT the K-69-A found on most K-510 and K-402 horns today).

 

It's actually a B&C DE75 driver like this one:

 

http://www.parts-express.com/bc-de75ptn-2-titanium-compression-driver-8-ohm-4-bolt--294-5828

 

If it is, it actually sounds better than the K-69-A, in my opinion.

 

CHris

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Hi everyone

 

We (culture cooperation Brebl in Nijmegen, the Netherlands) just bought this "secret jubilee". I think it will be a great sounding setup. One pair, no x-overs. 

We want to use it for amplifying bands and disco (techno, garage, house etc....) , in an old warehouse of approximately 250m2 and around 350 persons? Will she serve? Any thoughts?

 

Eventually we even want to use her as a replacement for our very big but old MCM set, but will she give us the right bass sound, or shall we keep the MWM bins and ditch the mid/high of the MCM stack?

 

She was sold to us as being a prototype. To me she looks like a Jubilee KHJ and a 510. We've bought her unseen (apart from the pics) and we know there's no x-over, so we'd better bi-amp her. We've got a nice dvx x-over and 2 inkel M420 (100w 8 ohm, 150w 4 ohm). But will that be enough. If she's a real KHJ, the bass amp can be 400w. (Am i right?) The big question is the crossover frequency.

Another question. Since the mid/high is I presume around 1,5m hight, does any body know what will happen if we put her on a rolling risers, let's 50 cm up. Otherwise all the sound is going in the first row of dancing people.

 

regards, Godfried

 

Any input is more than welcome.

 

653.jpg

653.jpg

one pair of 2 way Jubilees is not enough for your application - 2 maybe  at least   and they have to be 3 way - the problem is the warehouse which will sound very canny 

 

-these carry 2 12 inch woofer per enclosure - and than is simply not enough - maybe in conjunction - that would give you a better sound - more detailed -but still not enough for 350 people that create a lot of noise on their own - so you need to over-ride that sound and that means 2 twice more sound to deafen that noise before actual music is heard -

 

then again for wider dispersion - you are missing the K402 horn and k69 driver - with that it would be an entire different animal -

 

-figure 2 pairs of jubilees - 3 way on the 4  corners plus the MCM for the bass  - that would be really good -but since you already have a pair of Jubilees and 1 Mcm- that aint bad either  -

Edited by Randyh
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"The K-510 horn loses vertical pattern control around 450 Hz,"

 

More like 1,450hz, it simply isn't that big.

 

HORIZONTAL 80 20 400Hz-18kHz
VERTICAL 60 20 2kHz-19kHz

 

Klipsch claims 60° at 2Khz, that's believable.

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Guys,

 

It helps to use data instead of personal belief systems. 

 

My definition of "losing polar control" for a horn is that it loses all polar control (i.e., 360 degrees coverage) instead of some assumed level of coverage.  Here is data (and even though the title says "calculated" it's actual coverage):

 

post-26262-0-21100000-1437317226_thumb.p

 

Note that the K-510 horn's horizontal coverage is better.  This is a very special horn, IMHO.

 

Please be careful about stating facts that aren't true.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris A
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  • 4 months later...

It's a good thing because for 250 sq/m space and 350 people you would probably need 8 pairs or more of those Jubilees.  510 horns would not be right for that application.  In fact the Jubilee itself is actually a poor choice for a space that large and for that many people.  It's just too small.

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