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510 vs 402


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Depends on where you cross the K-510: it needs to be crossed with a steep slope filter at least at 600-650 Hz in order to avoid the K-510 losing its polar control.  The K-402 doesn't care where you cross it--only the compression driver limits how low you cross it.

 

As far as subjective assessment - that's more difficult to describe, but I can tell you that I've recently acquired a third K-402 with which I intend to replace my current K-510 center horn, if that tells you anything.  I listen to multichannel music quite a lot, and it makes a difference.

 

One last thing: the compression driver you use with either horn is almost as important as the horn itself.

 

Chris

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Chris has much more experience with this. :emotion-21:

 

To me the biggest thing that stuck out was how wide a 402 can fill, you can be way off center and still get great sound. The 510 requires you to be much more directly in front of it.

 

Much more than that but that was my first impression. I say this because when hearing the two in the same room I was almost sitting on a side wall, as I walked to the center the 510 came alive but the 402 was doing great with the width from wall to wall. 

 

That's just one of the things, myself I haven't heard any horn I would want more at any price. imo 

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Chris has much more experience with this. :emotion-21:

 

To me the biggest thing that stuck out was how wide a 402 can fill, you can be way off center and still get great sound. The 510 requires you to be much more directly in front of it.

 

Much more than that but that was my first impression. I say this because when hearing the two in the same room I was almost sitting on a side wall, as I walked to the center the 510 came alive but the 402 was doing great with the width from wall to wall. 

 

That's just one of the things, myself I haven't heard any horn I would want more at any price. imo 

Having owned both, the 510 (with the mumps) loses pattern control a just a tad under 2,000 Hz. while the K402 maintains it down to 600 Hz. but can be used much lower than that (I used 300 Xover in mine). It's the best of the best, that 402.

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I would vote for K402 for better dispersion and lower cf. K402 could be crossed before many folded horns woofer would get nasty. I intent to use BMS 4592-Coax on K402 crossed @ ~300hz and put it on top of Jamboree. only if I can buy a pair of K402s...

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One last thing: the compression driver you use with either horn is almost as important as the horn itself.

Chris

Care to expand on this a little?

Beryllium/402 any good?

Edited by Schu
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Care to expand on this a little?...Beryllium/402 any good?

 

The Be diaphragms in the TADs have made my day for the last 6 years.  No amplifier or preamp has done that for me--not even close.

 

I see some folks spending a lot more on preamps, amps, turntables/cartridges, or even DACs than on their loudspeakers/drivers, and then balk at the price of even low-to-mid-priced 2" compression drivers, which makes no sense to me at all...very odd priorities, IMHO.

 

The BMS 4592ND dual diaphragm (coaxial) compression driver is pretty good, too, which I've heard and would recommend. 

 

I haven't heard the Faital Pro 2" HF200 series compression drivers, but I see some guys that like them and hang onto them, and other guys that I know and I have calibrated their listening preferences--listen to them and then sell them off later, clearly preferring the TADs instead. 

 

The K-69-A is default what you get with the K-402 and K-510 horns from Klipsch (a poor policy, IMHO, since Klipsch would probably sell a bunch of these horns at a lower price to consumers without attached drivers).  Those work well as midrange drivers, but they chatter fairly significantly at ~14 kHz, which initially you might not notice  but it becomes increasingly fatiguing to listen to over time. 

 

Roy has also mentioned that Klipsch will also sell you a more expensive driver on their K-402s and K-510s, but I'm not sure what they're offering. 

 

Since it is so easy to replace drivers, I'd recommend buying whatever Klipsch will sell you and then buy your own compression drivers from U.S. Speaker or Parts Express and then sell off the K-69-As.

 

Along with the above advice, I also don't recommend low-balling active digital crossovers either.  Get something worth having.  A good active digital crossover will last you a lifetime...even if you later sell the speakers, the active digital crossover will stay and be useful for later loudspeaker purchases. 

 

As usual, YMMV.

 

Chris

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  • 1 year later...

The K-402-MEH (i.e., the K-402 horn with four extra off-axis ports added and two 15" Crites cast frame woofers attached).  This measured FR is normalized to the on-axis (zero degree) SPL taken outside on a turntable base with a K-69-A compression driver:

 

K-402-MEH Normalized Off-Axis FR 10-60 deg.png

 

Note that the design coverage here is 45 degrees (90 degrees included angle), so the top orange trace in this plot is about as far as the coverage extends before the throat of the horn becomes occluded by the wall of the horn, i.e., this is spectacular performance.  Note the vertical scale in dBSPL.

 

Also note: anything above ~8 kHz is controlled by the compression driver phase plug and throat of the driver itself.

 

Chris

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To contrast the K-402 performance, here is the measured (not calculated) vertical directivity of the much smaller K-510 Horn:

 

k510ver.png

 

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On 1/29/2017 at 6:32 PM, jazzmessengers said:

I've heard the SH50 and they were speakers I was considering at one point. Very dynamic speakers, but I couldn't shake the feeling that I was aware that I was listening to horns. I'm not good at describing it since it wasn't like the coloration you hear from those audiophile horn speakers with round horns stacked on top of each that beam at their upper passbands.

I think some of what you heard could be related to the quality of the drivers used in the SH-50, perhaps some related to the reflex ports used on the side walls (i.e., group delay growth in that particular Danley model), and perhaps the total number of off-axis ports used:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=75546&d=1265

 

Chris

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