Schu Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) My 103r parks audio cinemag sut is very black... I wouldn't have kept it otherwise. Edited July 6, 2015 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Good review Travis. Made a nice morning read. While I probably will never have any of those it's nice to read your impressions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hello Justin. What grado MOving Iron did you have. And how did You like it? The low output Sonata is a fav of mine. If you want to audition A denon Zu 103r let me know. It's not really for sale but it's my back up and it's just sitting here. If you want to give it a go let me know and I'll send it down your way so you can try it out. Josh Justin had a Grado Statement Sonata. Absolutely a fantastic cart in my opinion. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I agree the statement sonata is pretty awesome. One of the best all time values in Carts IMHO. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 My 103r parks audio cinemag sut is very black... I wouldn't have kept it otherwise The cinemag review (in Stereophile?) was very positive. This is a product I've never had experience with, and it would be very interesting. Background silence is a very important commonly missing ingredient in hi-fi quality. After all, concert halls have incredibly low ambient noise, which lets music, instruments and voices stand out in splendid isolation. Hi-fi systems with that kind of isolation create a special listening pleasure that makes the music really stand out. It sounds like you have some of that advantage in yours. I want to get an extremely quiet amp some day if I can supersede the Joule's OTL noise with equivalent quality. That's very hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 My 103r parks audio cinemag sut is very black... I wouldn't have kept it otherwiseThe cinemag review (in Stereophile?) was very positive. This is a product I've never had experience with, and it would be very interesting. Background silence is a very important commonly missing ingredient in hi-fi quality. After all, concert halls have incredibly low ambient noise, which lets music, instruments and voices stand out in splendid isolation. Hi-fi systems with that kind of isolation create a special listening pleasure that makes the music really stand out. It sounds like you have some of that advantage in yours. I want to get an extremely quiet amp some day if I can supersede the Joule's OTL noise with equivalent quality. That's very hard to find. My benchmark AHB2 is the quietest amp I have ever experienced. It's also the best sounding I have experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) My benchmark AHB2 is the quietest amp I have ever experienced. It's also the best sounding I have experienced. Interesting. I don't know if I'll ever have the opportunity to hear one, but I have always been partial to tubes. [The following has been edited since first posted:] One reason it may be so quiet is its very low (numerically very high) input sensitivity for power out: the low-power out level requires a very high 9.8 volts for full power out. Too many amps require 0.5 v. or 1.0 v., and that's too much gain for Klipsch efficiency, especially for the 104 dB K-horn. Benchmark's mid-level of four volts in for full power out is a fine intermediate level IMO. My OTL's are probably 2.5 volts in for 100 watts out See Benchmark's website for very detailed discussion and specs. Another example of purposeful gain-matching for silence on high-efficiency horns, is the Quicksilver Horn Mono which requires a substantial 6 v. in for full power out. Edited July 8, 2015 by LarryC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Background silence is a very important commonly missing ingredient in hi-fi quality. After all, concert halls have incredibly low ambient noise, which lets music, instruments and voices stand out in splendid isolation. Hi-fi systems with that kind of isolation create a special listening pleasure that makes the music really stand out. This chart FYI is of typical ambient sound/noise levels, not audio equipment: https://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/Training/PPETrain/dblevels.htm Concert hall base sound levels are way down at 20-30 dB, I think probably above the threshold of hearing. Ambient listening room levels are more like 50-60 dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 My benchmark AHB2 is the quietest amp I have ever experienced. It's also the best sounding I have experienced.Interesting. I don't know if I'll ever have the opportunity to hear one, but I have always been partial to tubes. [The following has been edited since posting:] One reason it may be so quiet is its very low (numerically very high) input sensitivity for power out: the low-power out level requires a very high 9.8 volts for full power out. Too many amps require 0.5 v. or 1.0 v., and that's too much gain for Klipsch efficiency, especially for the 104 dB K-horn. Benchmark's mid-level of four volts in for full power out is a fine intermediate level IMO. My OTL's are probably 2.5 volts in for 100 watts out See Benchmark's website for very detailed discussion and specs. Another example of purposeful gain-matching for silence on high-efficiency horns, is the Quicksilver Horn Mono which requires a substantial 6 v. in for full power out. i too had a preference for tubes. And indeed I have a variety of tube amps class a monoblocks. Vintage Macintosh Carey set etc. the benchmark has replaced them all and to my excels in everything I like in tube amps. It truly is remarkable. At least to my ears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 So of the denon 103 owners. Would you go cinmag sut and dl103r or ortofon 2m black? Seems like where I'm at now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Since Joshnich made the very nice offer to let you try out his 103 Zu, why not take him up on it to see how it works and sounds in your system? If you like the way that MC works for you, it and the cinemag might be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 True. The reality I install a cart. That's where it's staying if I like it ;-). I'm waiting on my table as we speak so all I'm left to is anxious rumination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I wish I had a deal that had a Dl103r and a 2m Black. Most won't Cary the DL103 for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Thanks everyone for the input. I went a bit sideways with my choice, but here it is: VPI prime with SDS and Ring Clamp and Ortofon 2M Black. I used my budget for a SUT to get the clamp... hoping its a solid choice. I’m jazzed about it coming and cant wait to start listening again. I have a Pioneer PLX1000 and think its a fine table, the VPI is just a completely different animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) I have a 103r sitting on the shelf doing nothing right now... why didn't you say you wanted to try it. as a matter of fact... I have a cinemag SUT sitting right next to it doing nothing also. you let me know. Edited July 21, 2015 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Id love to try the 103 and a SUT but am waiting for a pre upgrade and a 2nd arm board.... I like the idea of a MM and a MC on the same table... shoudl be a reality around the 1st of the year. I put a deposit on the MC22 reissue so should be an awsome front end :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenTacey Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I use a Ortofon 540 High Output MC. My only cartridge to track, think it is Telark, 1912 Overature, the recording of 70 calibre brass cannons, largest excursion by any recording or pickup cartridge. Music sounds fantastic with a Rega 3 and Grace 707 tonearm. Really a sweet looking tonearm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) VPI prime with SDS and Ring Clamp While I don't have experience with VPI or those accessories, I have noticed a real difference in the sound from my Basis Ovation TT as a result of using (1) the Basis record clamp, which greatly reduces wow from warped records, and (2) a PS Audio Power Plant, which seems to produce a smoother and fuller sound from LPs. I would predict a similar benefit on warped records from the ring clamp, and perhaps a sonic benefit from a better controlled power waveform to the TT motor. I believe that another forum member, MaxG, reported such a benefit several years ago from the Clearaudio motor power supply. These things can be expensive, unfortunately, which is why I don't have Basis's TT power accessory. Your experience with these items may be very interesting. Will you be able to compare with and without the motor controller? Thanks, Edited August 2, 2015 by LarryC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) I've run the sds with a classic 2... it makes an audible difference but its only very marginal and only becomes noticeable with a very direct A/B comparison. Hearing either option, with and without sds, sound is indistinguishable. For me personally, it's not worth the 750$-800$ it costs to add that power additive. Edited August 3, 2015 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 The stock clamp vpi uses is amazing, the ring clamp is a pain... etra step, but turns semi warped records into perfectly flat playing surfaces... (An amazing upgrade, perhaps more than the SDS.) I had planned to go Phoenix engineering motor controller which is really amazing as it creates a servo, but SDS is an integrated solution. I cool AB will be my Prime vs The PXL1000 with ring clamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.