jason str Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Unless your room is huge one R-115SW will do the trick, there are better options at higher prices but the R-115SW is decent and if the name is a must would be my choice. If you have a very large room or desire more you can always add another down the road. I don't really agree with this, it may be ok for being a gentleman while helping towers out with a subtle foundaton on music, but for movies the sub-bass doesn't really open up nicely until you get two in there. They are more directional than I'd like as well, so only having one can make the room sound lopsided. I have a 15x20 room with 9' ceilings and tried about every combination possible in there. But yeah, of course, if budget dictates then one will get you started. I just don't think that two is only necessary with very large rooms as stated. Two should be the goal from the beginning in my opinion, even in relatively small rooms. What is not to agree with ? I would rather have one great sounding sub over multiples of lesser models, yeah there may be a room null but at least what you hear sounds better. Yes multiples are better if you have the room and the money or have a large area where one won't cut it but placement is key overall. I like the idea of a Dayton Audio SPA1000 and Dayton Ultimax 18". I could build two boxes, and finish one with the sub and amp for now. Maybe in a couple months add the second amp and sub into the 2nd box. The room isn't very big, I haven't measured yet but my estimate is 16x11 with 9ft ceiling. I doubt we'd need the 2nd subwoofer but we could turn them down a little and level out the bass. We are only living in this house for a few years until we build our own, so I'm planning for a bigger room later on as well. You wont need 2 18" subs in a room that size unless you want to overpower everything else in your system. A pair of ported 12's would be ideal or a THT or F-20 would be even better, cheaper build and worth every minute of build time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) What is not to agree with ? I thought I already explained what I didn't agree with, the idea that two R-115's would only be necessary or desired in very large rooms. Edited July 6, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Well I never said it wouldn't need a little eq massaging or some dsp even after audyssey eq's these things are garbage. sorry. its the truth. I've seen a few people in a few different audio forums who keep trying to power these amazing DIY or passive subs with Behringer amps not sure who you are referring to but most who buy "lower end" 18's like what i have and dayton ref or ultimax usually spend less on amps. any who spend "bookoo"bucks on nicer drivers like uxl, or tc sounds usually buy much nicer amps. peavey, crown, qsc, and other "higher end" amps. It always cracks me up when I see guys who spend thousands on the rest of their gear - yet they buy a throwaway amp for what is arguably the most demanding portion of their sound spectrum not sure what is so funny. subs need power. an inuke 6000 dsp provies 3000 watts of rms power to my 4 18's. and they are flat to 8 hz in my room. feel free to watch my demo clip of book of eli i just added on youtube and you will see peaks of 121 db off of my throw away amp and measily avr power. have you ever been to someones house who has a 18" diy setup powered by any pro amp? if not id suggest trying to find someone in your area and go get your mind blown, that is if you think the sub-10 is cool anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) It's popular because it is cheap, and it's cheap for a reason. I've seen a few people in a few different audio forums who keep trying to power these amazing DIY or passive subs with Behringer amps - and it always leaves me scratching my head. You guys do realize that Behringer is the GPX/Kraco/Koss/MTX/iPodEarbuds of the professional audio world, right? Like I said - it's cheap for a reason. It always cracks me up when I see guys who spend thousands on the rest of their gear - yet they buy a throwaway amp for what is arguably the most demanding portion of their sound spectrum. I have been using the Behringer amps for 3 years without problems. The DSP is like Auddysee XT 32 as an amp for sub duty, lol. I tried a total of 3 Dayton amps for sub duty/shakers and returned all 3. Behringer has a comparative advantage with the I Nukes: they sell so many that, they can sell them cheaper. I have own two crown amps, the 1500 and 2500 and returned them in favor of the Behringer amps. For the record, two 18, 21, or 24 in. subs will not over power the room if setup correctly. The question, do you need two 18's. Two subs are better than one for the FR. Three is better than two and 4 is about as good as it will get for that room. Edited July 6, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) I have own two crown amps, the 1500 and 2500 and returned them in favor of the Behringer amps. I had a QSC with a toroidal transformer big enough to power Ironman that I returned in favor of my iNuke 6K. Edited July 6, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BATMAN5892 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 If I got the kit from Parts Express, including the Dayton 18" Ultramax and the flats for the box(~350), then cut out the back for the Dayton SPA1000(~360), how much would that effect the sound? This is right in the middle of my budget and would be quick and easy compared to building from scratch. I'm sure the single 18" would be plenty for now. As I mentioned I'm just planning for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 For the record, two 18, 21, or 24 in. subs will not over power the room if setup correctly. If this was aimed at my comment you misunderstood my post. What i said was "You wont need 2 18" subs in a room that size unless you want to overpower everything else in your system". Maybe you mistook want to for will ? If this was not aimed at my comment just disregard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If I got the kit from Parts Express, including the Dayton 18" Ultramax and the flats for the box(~350), then cut out the back for the Dayton SPA1000(~360), how much would that effect the sound? This is right in the middle of my budget and would be quick and easy compared to building from scratch. I'm sure the single 18" would be plenty for now. As I mentioned I'm just planning for the future. That Dayton in a ported cabinet would be great, using a sealed cabinet not so much for home theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If I got the kit from Parts Express, including the Dayton 18" Ultramax and the flats for the box(~350), then cut out the back for the Dayton SPA1000(~360), how much would that effect the sound? No need for the plate amp in my opinion. You could get an iNuke 3000 DSP for about $100 less while getting a DSP as well as more power. I'm just planning for the future. For $35 more than that plate amp you could have an iNuke 6K and just run half of it for now. When you add another sub in the future, and you will, you won't have to buy another amp like you would if you get that plate amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) That Dayton in a ported cabinet would be great, using a sealed cabinet not so much for home theater It works fine. If you want to rupture your guts out at 15 hz you might need 8 of the things but otherwise it's fine. I've got two in a sealed box, for most material it is more than enough at halfway sane listening levels. Edited July 6, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) That Dayton in a ported cabinet would be great, using a sealed cabinet not so much for home theater It works fine. If you want to rupture your guts out at 15 hz you might need 8 of the things but otherwise it's fine. I've got two in a sealed box, for most material it is more than enough at halfway sane listening levels. Should be down 10 dB @ 20 Hz or so in that 4 cubic foot cabinet in case anyone was interested. Edited July 6, 2015 by jason str Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Should be down 10 dB @ 20 Hz or so in that 4 cubic foot cabinet in case anyone was interested. In-room I'm flat to 10 with mostly only a cut at 40 hz. My only complaint with the sound is subsonic stuff around reference level, they get to flopping around a stupid amount. Porting it would sure help this, and it would also be about 14 cubic feet just for one driver including the port and driver displacement if you tune it to 15. If we're talking about Sub-12's and a single R-115 as viable alternatives, there's no reason why a sealed Ultimax wouldn't be acceptable. Of course more would be better, as always. Edited July 6, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Should be down 10 dB @ 20 Hz or so in that 4 cubic foot cabinet in case anyone was interested. is that what you get when you punch in parameters in a sub box program? win ISD or something? and would that be a ground plane measurement? just wondering cause it doesn't seem like it would be that far down at 20. Edited July 6, 2015 by Scrappydue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 For the record, two 18, 21, or 24 in. subs will not over power the room if setup correctly. If this was aimed at my comment you misunderstood my post. No, the comment was not directed at you and I always value your input. My comment was meant to point out with proper setup the size of the sub is not a problem. The Dayton amp would not be my first choice but, it will work if one does not want a separate amp. Due to the UM 18 kit being a closed system or any other sealed sub it will roll off at 12 db per octave so, the spl at 10 hz compared to 20 Hz will be 10-12 db less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Should be down 10 dB @ 20 Hz or so in that 4 cubic foot cabinet in case anyone was interested.is that what you get when you punch in parameters in a sub box program? win ISD or something? and would that be a ground plane measurement? just wondering cause it doesn't seem like it would be that far down at 20. I don't know what it is at 4 cubic feet but it's not that much with a larger box. The graph below shows an ultimax 18 in a larger sealed box, something like 6 maybe 7 cubic feet, it's the red line. The others were Acoustic Elegance 15's, one was a single 15 with two passive radiators and the other was two normal 15's in a sealed box. All were modeled with them hitting xmax at 15 hz. It's about 5 db down at 20 vs. the peak of the hump at 40, and this isn't in-room response. The thing about the ultimax though is that you get very diminished returns above 4 cubic feet. You're looking at a massive 1 hz on the resonant frequency when you upgrade it to 5 cubic feet like I have, and it just gets less after that. I'd be surprised if 10 db was factual with this in mind. Edited July 7, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Should be down 10 dB @ 20 Hz or so in that 4 cubic foot cabinet in case anyone was interested. In-room I'm flat to 10 with mostly only a cut at 40 hz. My only complaint with the sound is subsonic stuff around reference level, they get to flopping around a stupid amount. Porting it would sure help this, and it would also be about 14 cubic feet just for one driver including the port and driver displacement if you tune it to 15. If we're talking about Sub-12's and a single R-115 as viable alternatives, there's no reason why a sealed Ultimax wouldn't be acceptable. Of course more would be better, as always. Room gain depends on room size, the smaller the room the more gain you get in low frequencies. Should be down 10 dB @ 20 Hz or so in that 4 cubic foot cabinet in case anyone was interested. is that what you get when you punch in parameters in a sub box program? win ISD or something? and would that be a ground plane measurement? just wondering cause it doesn't seem like it would be that far down at 20. Listed on the PE page in a 4 cubic foot cabinet f10 is @ 18 Hz but you must account for the driver once installed so i gave a quick look for myself what the response in the knockdown cabinet in WinISD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Room gain depends on room size, the smaller the room the more gain you get in low frequencies. Yet this guy has nearly half the room I do and you're saying sealed Ultimax's are no bueno even there. Edited July 7, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Every room has its challenges, too many variables are involved and most spend lots of time trying to get it to sound right. If you are happy with your results thats great but sealed subs are not everybodys cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 If you are happy with your results thats great but sealed subs are not everybodys cup of tea. Lots of people even here are running sealed boxes with great results. Each enclosure type has its pros and cons of course but to issue a blanket statement saying that sealed 18's are no good for home theater is kind of silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 If you are happy with your results thats great but sealed subs are not everybodys cup of tea. Lots of people even here are running sealed boxes with great results. Each enclosure type has its pros and cons of course but to issue a blanket statement saying that sealed 18's are no good for home theater is kind of silly. I never made a blanket statement about sealed cabinets, you are just putting words in my mouth. My statement was only in regards to the Dayton UM18 so get over yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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