Deang Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 It is pretty hypocritical, but I suppose it's too late to go back to Prohibition. I just finished the video. Any doctor that can be duped into believing that an opiate (or opioid) based painkiller is "non-addicting", probably shouldn't be practicing medicine. It does show the power that big pharma has over physicians, just crazy. I take a total of 45mg of OxyContin a day. I'm approaching the end of my second month. I'm not noticing any tolerance issues yet, and actually have days where I take two 15mg tablets instead of three. That one girl said she went to the starting dose to some insane amount in a matter of months. The stuff is pretty strong, I can't even imagine. The other girl was taking 30 80mg tablets a day. That's just unimaginable, she should be dead and her physician should be in prison. This brings emphasis to my point that most GPs aren't qualified to write prescriptions for any of these medications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The biggest problem with NSAIDS is that they kill all of the good bacteria in your digestive tract. This leads to serious problems down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I was against the NSAID's at first but to keeping the inflammation down is KEY! The NSAID's are not supposed to kill the pain, just stop the inflammation of the area around the bulging disk, in my case the disk is pushing against nerves like my Sciatica. I have not read about them affecting the digestive tract and thanks for cluing me in for I am going to do more research on the subject. I am strange, when I was young and got hurt I used to laugh. Parents and teachers never believed me that I was hurt because I would laugh. It's a strange thing I know. I kinda like pain (friends and family said when i had pancreatitis I was the happiest they have ever seen me. But chronic pain is different it wears you down and that's when I turn to opiates, I actually try not to take them every day. I didn't have any yesterday but my back is killing me today so it looks like I will need some if the ibuprofen doesn't help, I get prescribed huge 800mg tablets that work pretty good for the inflammation, the throbbing down my leg is more annoying then the sharp pains in my spine. I almost don't believe that lady was taking 30 80mg pills a day. I call BS. She was probably selling them or exaggerating. Seriously if you are taking that much it should be warning sign to chill out or else climbing out that rabbit hole isn't going to be fun. I have seen people with physical symptoms of withdrawal and it's not pretty. I can deal with pain for some time, I am not a dependent yet. But I do love opiates, nothing else works and for that I thank the mighty poppy and mother nature for doing it's job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The biggest problem with NSAIDS is that they kill all of the good bacteria in your digestive tract. This leads to serious problems down the road.yes sir...after my accident i was taking 800mg motrin and vicodin...until specialist told me my stomach was bleeding. Nothing anymore. Four herniated disks...daily pain is just the norm for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 You must have a high threshold for pain. "...chronic pain is different it wears you down..." Yup, absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 chronic pain causes: -depression -productivity loss -family problems -personality problems... -eating problems and other related health problems proper pain therapy creates a day and nite improvement in ones life Yeah, those are the people to demoonize with Narco Contracts and drug testying and monitoring! they are the EPIDEMIC of danger!!!!! Boozehounds? who cares! let em go kill people on the road or with guns or with their fists...who cares....no probnlem....!!! LOL - govemwent knows best!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I take a total of 45mg of OxyContin a day. I'm approaching the end of my second month. I'm not noticing any tolerance issues yet, fyi...i have taken 45mg/day for 5 years wit absolutly no changes......no issues....works grate!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 This is starting to sound like a "So, what's the big deal?" rant. There is no disputing that opiates are addictive. Contrary to what has been said above, addiction is not equal to dependence, plus crime. Addiction is not defined that way. Addiction exists by way of the body's negative reaction to withdrawal from the drug. Nothing more. There is no doubt in my mind that opiates are not evil incarnate. They have their place in a functioning society. There is just undoubtedly a lot of abuse and unnecessary use of it, which does, in fact, lead to crime and other "bad" behavior. I am not interested in the pill-poppers' never-ending argument that they suffer real pain. I have heard that argument plenty, and I believe the experience of pain to be real. When I was a bit younger, I used to condemn opiate use, but having aged, seen and talked to more older people with chronic pain, I get it. I don't so much condemn the use, as much as I feel sorry for the folks that use it. The pain must be pretty bad. I have some level of constant, chronic lower back and hip pain, but I will not touch the stuff. Fortunately, I guess that means my pain is not bad enough. I have seen the effects of long-term, daily opiate use, and they are not good. It obviously helps with pain, but in exchange, you get terrible constipation, a bit of lethargy, perhaps nervousness, and some other effects that tend to drag you down. For that reason, I will tolerate pain without the use of drugs as much as possible. However, I do realize that in some people (and potentially me some day, for whatever reason), the pain becomes so bad, you just have to give in and take the pills. In the meantime, I value the ability to just sit down on the pot and quickly and easily drop my deposit. There is huge value in that. I have seen how messed up people become with they are severely constipated. I never want to suffer that. (What an awful topic, but that's reality.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 A person can have a high functional capacity and be addicited. If they want to test the theory, go 6 months without the drug. All addicts don't commit crimes and once agin, addiction and dependency overlap and one word is not sufficient to cover what is going on with these people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoker2c Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 "Addiction is about behavior... Dependence is about biology" <<< actually more like Pathophysiology But says it all in a nutshell.Derek "addiction and dependency overlap" they actually don't, they transfer categories, but it is a fine line if, or when, crossed eventually.Last 10 yrs here working as ICADC addiction counselor and running an aftercare program. It seems the difference of opinions written here is solely reliant on perceptions due to experience. Great discussion guys! Keep it civil if others don't see your perception of issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 "Addiction is about behavior... Dependence is about biology" <<< actually more like Pathophysiology But says it all in a nutshell. Derek "addiction and dependency overlap" they actually don't, they transfer categories, but it is a fine line if, or when, crossed eventually. Last 10 yrs here working as ICADC addiction counselor and running an aftercare program. It seems the difference of opinions written here is solely reliant on perceptions due to experience. Great discussion guys! Keep it civil if others don't see your perception of issues. Yes, "addiction" has such a negative connotation that I can see why a person might want to use the word, "dependence," and say, "Whatever 'dependence' is, it's not addiction." I see the two as the same... (but actually think "hooked" ought to be a special category. lol). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoker2c Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 "Addiction is about behavior... Dependence is about biology" <<< actually more like Pathophysiology But says it all in a nutshell. Derek "addiction and dependency overlap" they actually don't, they transfer categories, but it is a fine line if, or when, crossed eventually. Last 10 yrs here working as ICADC addiction counselor and running an aftercare program. It seems the difference of opinions written here is solely reliant on perceptions due to experience. Great discussion guys! Keep it civil if others don't see your perception of issues. Yes, "addiction" has such a negative connotation that I can see why a person might want to use the word, "dependence," and say, "Whatever 'dependence' is, it's not addiction." I see the two as the same... (but actually think "hooked" ought to be a special category. lol Hooked is anywhere past that fine line, call it whatever you want to society. It's treated differently then a dependency though if properly assessed . Proper assessment is where GP doctors lack the skill set. <<< hence the need for certain regulations or referrals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) It has nothing to do with connotation. The two technical terms "addiction" and "dependant" should not be used interchangeably. I will use them in sentences if it helps to clarify. My dog has become so dependant on me that she could not fend for herself in the wild, she would probably die without me. My dog is addicted to dog biscuits, she can't get enough of them. But if she stops recieving dog biscuits she will not start shaking and feel like puking. Edited July 20, 2015 by thesloth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 It has nothing to do with connotation. The two technical terms "addiction" and "dependant" should not be used interchangeably. I will use them in sentences if it helps to clarify. My dog has become so dependant on me that she could not fend for herself in the wild, she would probably die without me. My dog is addicted to dog biscuits, she can't get enough of them. But if she stops recieving dog biscuits she will not start shaking and feel like puking. What if your dog started shaking and puking? What do you call that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 It has nothing to do with connotation. The two technical terms "addiction" and "dependant" should not be used interchangeably. I will use them in sentences if it helps to clarify. My dog has become so dependant on me that she could not fend for herself in the wild, she would probably die without me. My dog is addicted to dog biscuits, she can't get enough of them. But if she stops recieving dog biscuits she will not start shaking and feel like puking. What if your dog started shaking and puking? What do you call that? Dependency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 A tribute to Mark Deneen (I hope he is well): "Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death." http://www.asam.org/for-the-public/definition-of-addiction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thesloth Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I google searched "difference between addiction and dependence" The first thing that comes up is: "Physical dependence can occur without addiction; this is the common experience of most chronic pain patients who are able to take their opioid medication as prescribed for pain but don't develop the uncontrollable compulsion and loss of control. A desire to avoid withdrawal is not addiction" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Does tyhe national institute on drug abuse know what they arwe talking about, or just regular joes who are suddenly experts on opiates??? http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/teaching-packets/neurobiology-drug-addiction/section-iii-action-heroin-morphine/10-addiction-vs-dependence pasted text As you have just explained, different parts of the brain are responsible for the addiction and dependence to heroin and opiates. Review the areas in the brain underlying the addiction to morphine (reward pathway) and those underlying the dependence to morphine (thalamus and brainstem). Thus, it is possible to be dependent on morphine, without being addicted to morphine. (Although, if one is addicted, they are most likely dependent as well.) This is especially true for people being treated chronically with morphine, for example, pain associated with terminal cancer. They may be dependent - if the drug is stopped, they suffer a withdrawal syndrome. But, they are not compulsive users of the morphine, and they are not addicted. Finally, people treated with morphine in the hospital for pain control after surgery are unlikely to become addicted; although they may feel some of the euphoria, the analgesic and sedating effects predominate. There is no compulsive use and the prescribed use is short-lived. ------------------------ and this one is more detailed: http://www.naabt.org/addiction_physical-dependence.cfm read this if you think you are an opiod expert on addiction....explanations are very clear. I go with actual medicAL EXPERTS and doctors OVER regular joes who like to call people pill poppers!!!!!!!!!! LOL have fun wityh it tho....we all experts! Edited July 20, 2015 by jo56steph74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Does tyhe national institute on drug abuse know what they arwe talking about, or just regular joes who are suddenly experts on opiates??? http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/teaching-packets/neurobiology-drug-addiction/section-iii-action-heroin-morphine/10-addiction-vs-dependence pasted text As you have just explained, different parts of the brain are responsible for the addiction and dependence to heroin and opiates. Review the areas in the brain underlying the addiction to morphine (reward pathway) and those underlying the dependence to morphine (thalamus and brainstem). Thus, it is possible to be dependent on morphine, without being addicted to morphine. (Although, if one is addicted, they are most likely dependent as well.) This is especially true for people being treated chronically with morphine, for example, pain associated with terminal cancer. They may be dependent - if the drug is stopped, they suffer a withdrawal syndrome. But, they are not compulsive users of the morphine, and they are not addicted. Finally, people treated with morphine in the hospital for pain control after surgery are unlikely to become addicted; although they may feel some of the euphoria, the analgesic and sedating effects predominate. There is no compulsive use and the prescribed use is short-lived. ------------------------ and this one is more detailed: http://www.naabt.org/addiction_physical-dependence.cfm read this if you think you are an opiod expert on addiction....explanations are very clear. I go with actual medicAL EXPERTS and doctors OVER regular joes who like to call people pill poppers!!!!!!!!!! LOL have fun wityh it tho....we all experts! I am not arguing. This is the way I converse. That was an interesting post. So, addiction is compulsive use due to the reward system pathway. I would have always agreed with that. The interesting distinction was that the quoted language associates dependence with the thalamus and brain stem. Therefore, it seems the withdrawal symptoms likewise emanate through the thalamus and brain stem as well. I never knew this. Tempering the distinction, however, is the language which says that if a person is addicted, they are most likely dependent as well. I don't know what amount "most likely" is supposed to be, but it kind of lumps it all back into the throwaway position again. That is an interesting distinction. A compulsion vs. a withdrawal, I can see, is different, but both keep you taking the pill. So, why do you suppose the distinction matters? Edited July 20, 2015 by Jeff Matthews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) BTW, the "Mark Deneen" tribute was an inside joke. Some of you probably did not know him. During his many battles on this forum, it would often progress to the point where he would start whipping out dictionaries and getting into definitions. It's too bad he flipped a switch and got worked-up enough to cause a seemingly permanent leave of absence. I often enjoyed his posts, even though they got a little crazy. Edited July 20, 2015 by Jeff Matthews 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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