OxyContin and other addictions...

[oldtimer]

Dude (Dean) you're taking the wind out of my joke.

Edited July 20, 2015 by oldtimer

[Jim Naseum]

All you have to do is properly hydrate.

 

Correct! eat right....drink water....no problem! This so-called constipation problem is posted by people who are not on longterm opioids but wanting to make a nasty case. Never in 5 years did I have constipotion!! For those who don't eat right, and eat piles of crap junk foods, they get COLACE prescribed!!! LOL...

[Deang]

The disinformation is somewhat alarming.

Well, gotta go, it's pill time, yee-haw!

[ZEUS121996]

It is pretty hypocritical, but I suppose it's too late to go back to Prohibition.

I just finished the video. Any doctor that can be duped into believing that an opiate (or opioid) based painkiller is "non-addicting", probably shouldn't be practicing medicine. It does show the power that big pharma has over physicians, just crazy.

I take a total of 45mg of OxyContin a day. I'm approaching the end of my second month. I'm not noticing any tolerance issues yet, and actually have days where I take two 15mg tablets instead of three. That one girl said she went to the starting dose to some insane amount in a matter of months. The stuff is pretty strong, I can't even imagine. The other girl was taking 30 80mg tablets a day. That's just unimaginable, she should be dead and her physician should be in prison. This brings emphasis to my point that most GPs aren't qualified to write prescriptions for any of these medications.

Most doctors won't risk their license to make a few dollars. The people who are taking massive doses are buying them on the street, Oxy goes for $1/milligram so a 40 would be $40. I know because that's what I was offered when I had them. And in most cases, I call bullshit on the amount people claim to take, dopers also tend to be liars. 30 80s a day would have killed her, so she claims she was spending $2400 a day?

When I got to the point I couldn't walk I was taking 4 40s a day. I did that for about 5 months. I didn't know I was f-cked up, but everyone around me did. I'm old school, there were things that had to get done before I could have the surgeries, you do what you have to and deal with the consequences later. Younger people cant relate to that, they are used to getting what they want without making any sacrifices. I sacrificed my body to take care of people I really care about. They couldn't afford it and I could do the work, so it got done. It was my choice, I knew the possible repercussions and I have no regrets.

But that's me

So it goes

 

Mark

[ZEUS121996]

 

I take a total of 45mg of OxyContin a day. I'm approaching the end of my second month. I'm not noticing any tolerance issues yet,

 

fyi...i have taken 45mg/day for 5 years wit absolutly no changes......no issues....works grate!!

 

Except your spelling and grammer are a little f*cked up LOL

 

Mark

[ZEUS121996]

 

I disagree that Vicoden is the most prescribed drug in America.   http://www.webmd.com...05/top-10-drugs

 

 

I am surprised boner pills weren't in the top 10.

 

Are you referring to the Blue Angels?

 

Mark

[Jim Naseum]

 

 

I take a total of 45mg of OxyContin a day. I'm approaching the end of my second month. I'm not noticing any tolerance issues yet,

 

fyi...i have taken 45mg/day for 5 years wit absolutly no changes......no issues....works grate!!

 

Except your spelling and grammer are a little f*cked up LOL

 

Mark

 

 

 

agreed,,,,im as dumb as a rock, my pappy use to say!! LOL!!!

 

Im just gald I was just bearly smart enuff to know that oxyconton is medicine and booze is for recreation! LOL

 

you had a qwite a story their!! musta been painfull. u no the drill then! LOL!!!

[Travis In Austin]

I disagree that Vicoden is the most prescribed drug in America.

 

http://www.webmd.com/news/20140805/top-10-drugs

 

 

Alcohol is far worse then opiates please educate yourself.

 

I still preach any addiction is bad, whether it's ice cream or percocets. We are humans and have reason and logic, we should be able to control the use of substances through knowledge, and not let them control us.

 

 

Bottom line, education is key.

Here is what you should be looking at.

http://www.webmd.com/news/20110420/the-10-most-prescribed-drugs

Education in what sense? Read up all you want about morphine, become a leading expert in it. Then get hooked up to a morohine drip in a hospital for several days and have it suddenly cut off, withiut proper weaning, because you have no insurance, or your benefits coordinator says you need to get out if there.

I don't care how educated you are about morphine, you will be dependant/and or addicted. Some just live through it or have no means to physically go iut and get it, others go to a doctor and get other forms of pain meds, others, go off the grid.

Education works for alcohol and cigarettes. However, other things are required besides education. Getting it out of advertising and media for cigarettes was a big factor, along with the extinction of the Tobacco "Institute."

I do not know the answer, I am generally against prohibition of any drug or substance, but when you get something prescribed by a doctor you figure it is safe and effective and that they are not going to get yiu hooked on anything.

But that has not been the case with a lot if substances. Diet pills, tranquilizers, etc.

Yet, people for a fact need pain meds. The United Natiins, in the early 60s declared that that access to opioid analgesics when properly prescribed was a fundamental human RIGHT.

Personally, I think sugar is worse than all of them the way the food industry makes processed foods and hides 7t from the publuc in low fat hype. It is a slient and deadly killer. At least with heroin you know up front what you are getting into.

So what is the answer? I see lot's of complaints, justified, and lots on the other side that are hard cold facts about deaths and abuse.

Does anyone have any rational answers to how to strike a balance? Or shiukd they just sell it over the counter at the local drug store?

[Jim Naseum]

Wow.... Are you talking from experience???? Lol!!!

I have been in hospital on morphing drip and went home with no addiction!!! More than once!!!! Lordyt lordy man!!!

You are spreading nonsense with no actual experience!!! Sorry man but it's true !!! And no one I no suggested selling opioids at corner store!!!! Lol! Crazy!!! Fearspreading is no answer. These scare comments are crazy man!!!

If you have cryonic pain, see experienced MD!! If you want to talk about what criminals do, they abuse many drugs and that includes booze and opioid and lsd and grass and heroin and many more.

Misuse of drugs???? Go arrest BILL COSBY!!! LOL BUT for god sake don't blame sick people THST need pain medicine!!!

I should shut up.... Not smart enough for this convo!!! Lol!!

All in fun.... No ofense ment by me!!!!! Ik just talk stoopid!

[Travis In Austin]

Wow.... Are you talking from experience???? Lol!!!

I have been in hospital on morphing drip and went home with no addiction!!! More than once!!!! Lordyt lordy man!!!

You are spreading nonsense with no actual experience!!! Sorry man but it's true !!! And no one I no suggested selling opioids at corner store!!!! Lol! Crazy!!! Fearspreading is no answer. These scare comments are crazy man!!!

If you have cryonic pain, see experienced MD!! If you want to talk about what criminals do, they abuse many drugs and that includes booze and opioid and lsd and grass and heroin and many more.

Misuse of drugs???? Go arrest BILL COSBY!!! LOL BUT for god sake don't blame sick people THST need pain medicine!!!

I should shut up.... Not smart enough for this convo!!! Lol!!

All in fun.... No ofense ment by me!!!!! Ik just talk stoopid!

You were not dependent/addicted/hooked because you were on a relatively low dose, or short time, or were weaned according to proper protocols. You should leave the hospital with no cravings. Some don't, for a variety of reasons. Others leave the hospital pain free but with a script for high does of ms cotin or oxycotin for pain to take "as needed" for pain without any regulation and run into problems.

So what is the answer? Go back to Schedule III? Keep it where it is? Should a doctor even have to prescribe it?

We are in our third major cycle of regulation on oral pain meds in the US, which appears to be a reaction to dramatic rise in prescriptions being written and overdose deaths, over 15,000 a year.

I don't think the families of the 15,000 really care if it is drug dependence, addiction, or abuse.

People with chronic pain have posted on here they can get their meds, they go to their doctor, get the Rx, take as directed. That seems to be working to some degree, with some hassle that is livable. Yet I went to a forum friend's wife's funeral this year, they cut off or restricted her pain meds and she just got to the point she couldn't deal with it anymore and took an alternate way out. Things obviously were not working the way they should in that situation.

You can get any Rx pain meds you want in the street, morphine, in all forms, codine, in all forms. Seems to me you can work in it from supply or demand, or balance the two.

[Travis In Austin]

Wow.... Are you talking from experience???? Lol!!!

I have been in hospital on morphing drip and went home with no addiction!!! More than once!!!! Lordyt lordy man!!!

You are spreading nonsense with no actual experience!!! Sorry man but it's true !!! And no one I no suggested selling opioids at corner store!!!! Lol! Crazy!!! Fearspreading is no answer. These scare comments are crazy man!!!

If you have cryonic pain, see experienced MD!! If you want to talk about what criminals do, they abuse many drugs and that includes booze and opioid and lsd and grass and heroin and many more.

Misuse of drugs???? Go arrest BILL COSBY!!! LOL BUT for god sake don't blame sick people THST need pain medicine!!!

I should shut up.... Not smart enough for this convo!!! Lol!!

All in fun.... No ofense ment by me!!!!! Ik just talk stoopid!

What then is the education you suggest?

[Travis In Austin]

Double

Edited July 21, 2015 by dwilawyer

[Jim Naseum]

May I first ask you.....

Have you been on a morphine drip???

Have you taken opioids for months at a time???

What's your actual experience as a sick person with deep pain?

Edited July 21, 2015 by jo56steph74

[A1UC]

Kratom  works wonders for me . 

[Deang]

The "answer" is to do what they're currently doing. It's not a perfect solution, but you can't legalize these things, and you can't let GPs prescribe them (since most have shown their ineptitude with their prescribing methods). So, pain clinics are the best way to help those who have to be on these medications to find any real relief -- you need some form or measure of control and accountability.

Is anyone going to address the alcohol related death numbers to those of pain killers?

[Travis In Austin]

May I first ask you.....

Have you been on a morphine drip???

Have you taken opioids for months at a time???

What's your actual experience as a sick person with deep pain?

Sure you can ask, but I don't think it is going to get any answers in a discussion about a medical issue, the treatment of chronic pain, as it relates to a public policy issue, is it appropriate to regulate the drugs commonly prescribed for chronic pain, and if so, to what degree.

They don't typically go to people to give anecdotal accounts in order to answer those types of questions. Nor do they formulate oublic policy because someone says, "hey I have been using X for 5 years and it totally saved my life." There is no question that the best we have right now for the treatment of chronic pain, at least in the short term, is opioids. I don't believe that anyone, certainly mot me, would argue that should be the case.

The specific question at issue here is whether drugs such as Vicoden and Oxycotin should have been moved from Schedule III to II. That is all that hapoened, and some feel that is appropriate, others feel that is way too restrictive. That wasn't a knee jerk reaction by the way, it has onky been under consideration by the FDA for at least 15 years, and was debated back in '70 when the schedules first came out. Back then they were brand names, the ones we all know, and the AMA and drug lobby was heavily involved.

Funny you shoukd mention Bill Cosby, Lemmon/Roehr took quaaludes off the market beca6se they were "highly addictive." They were at one time the most prescribed sleeping pill in the US and in the market for over twenty years. Darvocet, an opioid was recalled by the FDA after over 2000 deaths between 1981 and 1999. It was finally removed from the market, after 55 years, in 2010. The FDA was petitioned 3 times to remove it, and finally did no a full five years after Great Britin pulled it for being a major risk if heart problems.

I am sure there were many, many individuals who received significant benefit from each of those drugs, with no harmful side effects. But that isn't really the issue. The issue isn't the individual, it is how it effects a large group of people. More and more data comes in, some drugs are proven to be very, very safe, and eventually made available without a prescription. Others are show to be too risky to benon the market even though they help a majority of people who take them. Others are shown to have risk factors like dependency/addiction and are more tightly regulated such as diet pills, Methylphenidate, and methamphetamine (Ritilan, Adderall, etc.).

The pubic policy discussion doesn't concern itself with the individual, by definition. It is whether there is a real issue that creates a problem to the PUBLIC, if so, how to address it, and then whether that plan is effective.

So the first question is whether low dose opioids, the classification of drugs in question, were creating a problem for the public. Where they being over prescribed,? subject to abuse? to easy to obtain from doctors? That resulted in too many deaths. Those, to me, are the questions to be asked and discussed initially, nit whether you, or I, or anyone else never had a problem with them.

If there was/is a problem, was it appropriate to reclassify it? Has reclassification made it difficult or impossible to get the treatment they need. Finally, are there better alternatives to deal with the problem.

The history of how the US has dealt with opioids, from oure heroin being contained in liquid products sokd by Bayer when there was no regulation, through three waves of oublic policy debate resulting in federal and state regulation isnin the times article.

Those are the facts abiut the regulation and some facts about what was discussed in this latest round. The facts are the facts, whether that justified a policy change is for people to reach there own conclusion.

As for the facts about pain meds, I have cited to a peer reviewed journal by one of thenleading experts in the US on opioids and their pitential for addiction and the problems that causes doctors. Again, that is peer reviewed science, the conclusions to be drawn from that are certainly going to differ based on individual perspective.

I doubt Dr. Fields has been on a morphine drip, had chronic pain or been on pain meds for any significant duration. But he is one of the guys who discovered their pathways, what exact neurotransmitters and receptors are involved, and specifically what hapens in the limbic system when opioids enter the blood stream.

Here are the l7mks again for easy reference.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....33/#!po=2.27273

Here is a great history of opioid use and regulatiin in the United States:

http://www.nytimes.c...?abt=0002&abg=0

[Fish]

For anyone that grew up in an alcoholic home the cost of damage to everyone, including everybody is not even calculable. It is beyond money, it's a world changer, period. That said I got plenty friends that drink a brew, wine or their shine and go on with their life.

I have dead friends ,work and school mates etc..that had to have the ultimate buzz everyday, nothing to do with pain in my estimation, just a buzz. I believe if ya want to kill yourself it's up to your family and friends to help ya. If your determined who am I to stop ya. I think Doc should do medicine, law do lawing, people do the living or dying. Why should anyone tell anyone you don't need that, it's not their right. I always hated that rule where one person messed it up for everyone.

That said, I take no pain meds but occasional ibuprofen and have severe back pain for 25 years. I was told I would be unable to walk by 50, several years ago. 1Deteriorated disc, bulging and unable to walk a few days every now and then. I took Norco several times after surgery and they give ya a great buzz, did next to nothing for pain.

If ya ain't robbing the me,the neighbors I could care less what ya do. I'm into freedom, even to self desruct. If ya break the law by damaging others, funs over, no more silly pills or cold brew, just a cage.

[Travis In Austin]

The "answer" is to do what they're currently doing. It's not a perfect solution, but you can't legalize these things, and you can't let GPs prescribe them (since most have shown their ineptitude with their prescribing methods). So, pain clinics are the best way to help those who have to be on these medications to find any real relief -- you need some form or measure of control and accountability.

Is anyone going to address the alcohol related death numbers to those of pain killers?

88,000 deaths a year due to alcohol. 15,000 overdose deaths from prescription pain meds a year. I do not know how many, if any, they say die from years if taking pain medicine. I know most people on long term pain meds have to have their liver panels checked regularly, so I assume there was be some number associated with early death due to liver disease.

It would seem that alcohol, given the numbers, is more in need of regulating than opioids. We all know that we triednthat, it was an utter failure, and was repealed. I think alcohol is one of those things that education at home, at an early age that works. Especially if their is alcoholism on either side of the family.

There is very strong data that every year a child delays trying alcohol for the first time significantly reduces the risk of being an alcoholic or problem drinker later on. Many parents, including my own, weremof the opinion that being expised to it at, in moderation, at 16, 17, in a controlled environment was beneficial as opposed to trying it away from home. The research seems to disagree with that philosophy.

[twistedcrankcammer]

There are a lot of things wrong in that post Roger. Anyways,

44 a day multiplied by 365 is less than 17,000, compared to the 88,000 for alcohol.

Alcoholics don't go to hospitals for help, they go to the bar or to the convienence store. It's not like us "pill poppers" can just run to the store and load up when we run out.

Running out is just as often due to tolerance issues as it is to abuse issues. Not everyone is chasing the euphoria.

People die from simple ingestion far more than snorting it. It's just as likely that Courtney took too many before she left the house, started not to feel well at the store, and went to the restroom. It's very hard to imagine Courtney snorting a pill, but then, you didn't know her.

You can't crush OxyContin.

You still owe me all of those links to the $75 single and $150 a pair dual phase plug K-55-Vs. Something about "flooding" the forum with links because they're out there all of the time! Yeah, I don't have much respect for you or your lame brain opinions.

Dean,

You are absolutely wrong about crushing Oxycontin. A good buddy of mine is addicted and crushes all the time.

They did come out with a new kind of Oxycontin that gells inside your nose when you try to snort it. He overcame that by telling Doctors that the new drug does not work and the doctors just write the prescription for Oxycontin and write "Dose as writtem" on it and he gets the original stuff. I wonder why YOU would know about the non snortable form?

Dean, stop being a "JERK" about the three single drivers for $75 each. I felt sorry for you in finding out you were sick, so I retracted my posts. I swear on my love for my daughter that they did exist!

Roger

Edited July 21, 2015 by twistedcrankcammer

[Travis In Austin]

From the NIH

The Link Between Early Alcohol Use and Alcohol Dependence

Early alcohol use may have long–lasting consequences. People who begin drinking before age 15 are four times more likely to develop alcohol dependence at some time in their lives compared with those who have their first drink at age 20 or older (25). It is not clear whether starting to drink at an early age actually causes alcoholism or whether it simply indicates an existing vulnerability to alcohol use disorders (26). For example, both early drinking and alcoholism have been linked to personality characteristics such as strong tendencies to act impulsively and to seek out new experiences and sensations (27). Some evidence indicates that genetic factors may contribute to the relationship between early drinking and subsequent alcoholism (28,29). Environmental factors may also be involved, especially in alcoholic families, where children may start drinking earlier because of easier access to alcohol in the home, family acceptance of drinking, and lack of parental monitoring (27,26).